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  1. #31
    Filthy Apes! Kalach's Avatar
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    Pragmatism, mothereffers.

    Pragmatic decision making isn't actually all that rigid when done well, and even so, this is quite different from observing there are people out there who reject extroverted decision making.


    I discovered an alarming thing about an acquaintance recently. He's ISFP and bitches often but quite mildly about an irritating take charge guy we both know who I dislike quite a lot. I was puzzled by the mildness of ISFP's bitching. "If you don't like it--" I was saying, but then was struck... "Omg," I said. "YOU LIKE IT!" He dislikes this take charge guy bossing him around, but is pleased enough with the results. (Take Charge Guy sets up part time work for ISFP. This works mostly to the advantage of Take Charge Guy because he gets more money from other people by having ISFP come around, but I'm pretty sure, judged by actions, that ISFP doesn't actually care that much since he gets his walking around money too.)

    And I'm like, whatever, man, love that part of yourself and I won't have to listen to the bitching any more. The bitching has it's place, I'm sure, BUT YOU'VE MADE AN EXTROVERTED JUDGMENT RIGHT THERE, HOMIE. IT'S AN UNCONSCIOUS DECISION ABOUT HOW TO SET UP THE WORLD BUT IT'S WORKING FOR YOU, ISN'T IT, SO HOW ABOUT THAT, EH?!


    I hereby generalise to all Ps.

    *slam*
    Bellison uncorked a flood of horrible profanity, which, translated, meant, "This is extremely unusual."

    Boy meets Grr

  2. #32
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    Quote Originally Posted by Usehername View Post
    I am highly resistant to trusting people with new roles if they aren't interested in regularly putting themselves in the student role, and admitting they have worldview revisions to do.
    Eh? Admitting?

  3. #33
    Senor Membrae Eugene Watson VIII's Avatar
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    That's actually pretty interesting. This is why ENTP and INTJ would usually make good friends since the INTJ gets offered refreshing insights. I had one ENTP friend who pretty much bromanced hard with his INTJ pal...ya buncha nerds
    Myers-Briggs: xsFP

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    ~ People don't think it be like it is, but it do. ~

  4. #34
    Temporal Mechanic. Lexicon's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by highlander View Post
    People perceive that we're not open to new information when in fact, that is not the case.
    This has been my experience with _NTJ's. You guys tend to have a rather conclusive/definite/confident demeanor, in general. Statements/observations sound final, which can be intimidating to those who take that tone of finality quite literally- they'll no longer feel like they can speculate with you, or that you'll not be receptive to new data. I had to remind myself, in the past, when I felt distressed/misunderstood on some level- that things are not set in stone, even if you guys appear to have your minds made up already.
    03/23 06:06:58 EcK: lex
    03/23 06:06:59 EcK: lex
    03/23 06:21:34 Nancynobullets: LEXXX *sacrifices a first born*
    03/23 06:21:53 Nancynobullets: We summon yooouuu
    03/23 06:29:07 Lexicon: I was sleeping!



    04/25 04:20:35 Patches: Don't listen to lex. She wants to birth a litter of kittens. She doesnt get to decide whats creepy

    02/16 23:49:38 ygolo: Lex is afk
    02/16 23:49:45 Cimarron: she's doing drugs with Jack

    03/05 19:27:41 Time: You can't make chat morbid. Lex does it naturally.

  5. #35
    On a mission Usehername's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MacGuffin View Post
    Eh? Admitting?
    I like people who have the attitude of "I can handle this, I know I can learn things" when encountering new situations.

    I dislike people who have the attitude of "I just always assume I'm right and the other person is wrong whenever there's a discrepancy" which is pretty much a verbatim quote from an ISTJ I know. He refuses to put himself in situations where he can't legitimately argue that he's competent, because he's not willing to deal with the stress of the learning curve. I think that's a major weakness and I therefore don't trust him with a lot of things.
    *You don't have a soul. You are a Soul. You have a body.
    *Faith is the art of holding on to things your reason once accepted, despite your changing moods.
    C.S. Lewis

  6. #36
    Administrator highlander's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lexicon View Post
    This has been my experience with _NTJ's. You guys tend to have a rather conclusive/definite/confident demeanor, in general. Statements/observations sound final, which can be intimidating to those who take that tone of finality quite literally- they'll no longer feel like they can speculate with you, or that you'll not be receptive to new data. I had to remind myself, in the past, when I felt distressed/misunderstood on some level- that things are not set in stone, even if you guys appear to have your minds made up already.
    Exactly!

    Please provide feedback on my Nohari and Johari Window by clicking here: Nohari/Johari

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  7. #37
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    Quote Originally Posted by Usehername View Post
    I like people who have the attitude of "I can handle this, I know I can learn things" when encountering new situations.

    I dislike people who have the attitude of "I just always assume I'm right and the other person is wrong whenever there's a discrepancy" which is pretty much a verbatim quote from an ISTJ I know. He refuses to put himself in situations where he can't legitimately argue that he's competent, because he's not willing to deal with the stress of the learning curve. I think that's a major weakness and I therefore don't trust him with a lot of things.
    Oh, I thought you might be interrogating them. Never can know for sure with INTJs!

  8. #38
    reborn PeaceBaby's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nicodemus View Post
    There is something like a doorslam, too, though I would rather describe it as an icy shoulder: the complete withdrawal of respect and attention, people basically falling out of humanity.
    Noted. I can perceive that possibility, yes.

    Quote Originally Posted by Coriolis View Post
    What the OP describes is more like pigeonholing, as someone mentioned. It focuses on the utility or contribution of a person, not their individuality or humanity as Nicodemus neatly observed. When my default view of someone goes from utility to individuality, they have crossed an important threshold in our interaction/relationship.
    Yes, thanks for the confirmation and enhancement.

    Still, I will readily "upgrade" or expand the utilitarian view of someone. I am actually on the alert to discover what else someone can do, how they can be more useful, or contribute to more activities. I will not hesitate to put a minor player in charge of something once I realize they have the skills/experience to do it.
    Thanks for that.

    Quote Originally Posted by cascadeco View Post
    Yes, it's very relevant to me, at least... and prob. INFJ's in general. Taking a few seemingly random data points about someone and extrapolating (often accurately) to other aspects of them/decisions they would make.
    Interesting too, yes.

    Except I'm not sure about this. Some things take longer to conclusively form, but I totally do the immediate extrapolation thing; maybe in some cases I have probabilities associated with it, though, so might give a few cases more time to get a little more data.
    My feeling is that INFJ's look at people more as walking idiosyncrasies in the first place, therefore you take in more information before settling on a people-purpose. At least it feels that way, perhaps I am off there.

    Quote Originally Posted by Usehername View Post
    I am highly resistant to trusting people with new roles if they aren't interested in regularly putting themselves in the student role, and admitting they have worldview revisions to do.
    What about people who don't ... operate ... that way, for lack of a better word. I don't believe I have a process that, upon starting a new role or receipt of new information, requires me to tear down a worldview and build it back up.

    I feel I am adding utility all of the time to this giant web, and the web doesn't necessarily need to be started over again even with changes in subject or even major paradigm shifts in my understanding.

    How does that reconcile with your thoughts?

    Quote Originally Posted by Lexicon View Post
    This has been my experience with _NTJ's. You guys tend to have a rather conclusive/definite/confident demeanor, in general. Statements/observations sound final, which can be intimidating to those who take that tone of finality quite literally- they'll no longer feel like they can speculate with you, or that you'll not be receptive to new data. I had to remind myself, in the past, when I felt distressed/misunderstood on some level- that things are not set in stone, even if you guys appear to have your minds made up already.
    Quote Originally Posted by highlander View Post
    Exactly!
    What's of note is that INFJ's too give off the same air, just in a different purview.



    So, is it fair to generalize that most INTJ's feel they do "pigeonhole" people based on utility, but that they are far more open to making changes to this worldview upon receipt of new data than they appear?

    My question then is, would it benefit an INTJ to APPEAR more open in the first place (assuming that is indeed true), more receptive, rather than expecting people to KNOW such a thing?
    "Remember always that you not only have the right to be an individual, you have an obligation to be one."
    Eleanor Roosevelt


    "When people see some things as beautiful,
    other things become ugly.
    When people see some things as good,
    other things become bad."
    Lao Tzu, Tao Te Ching

  9. #39
    Senior Member Nicodemus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by PeaceBaby View Post
    So, is it fair to generalize that most INTJ's feel they do "pigeonhole" people based on utility, but that they are far more open to making changes to this worldview upon receipt of new data than they appear?
    I would think so.

    Quote Originally Posted by PeaceBaby View Post
    My question then is, would it benefit an INTJ to APPEAR more open in the first place (assuming that is indeed true), more receptive, rather than expecting people to KNOW such a thing?
    Probably. The thing is, of course, that it does not come naturally.

  10. #40
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    Quote Originally Posted by PeaceBaby View Post
    My question then is, would it benefit an INTJ to APPEAR more open in the first place (assuming that is indeed true), more receptive, rather than expecting people to KNOW such a thing?
    Yes, but it runs counter to how an INTJ operates.

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