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  1. #11
    reborn PeaceBaby's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by UniqueMixture View Post
    Don't most people do this? I always felt ESxx tries to "size you up" the fastest, however they will allow new roles to form more easily.
    Quote Originally Posted by highlander View Post
    This was my reaction as well. I think we all make judgments about people.
    @bold: Not sure that's true. It's different, I can feel it. That's where I am interested to explore.

    @boldpurple: I agree. Te-Si: "You know how to do task X? Good, get over there and do it man!"

    -----

    People perceive that we're not open to new information when in fact, that is not the case.
    I hear you

    In that case, I hold a grudge basically forever. There was a person who came up in a conversation just yesterday in fact that I feel this way about. Te dom (probably ENTJ). I hate the guy's guts.
    What could possibly change your mind about him? Anything?

    -----

    Quote Originally Posted by Qlip View Post
    Maybe a good word for it is typecasting? I've experienced this before, but not with an INTJ.. I'll attempt to remember.
    Yes, like that, someone repped me "pigeon-holing" like that one too. Keep the suggestions coming!

    Quote Originally Posted by Eric B View Post
    If I got this correctly, it seems like something ISTJ's do too. They have the dom. Si, and in this case, it works pretty much like the dom. Ni, where they go by their internal storehouse of data (and the aux. Te which judges the outside object and what to do with it), and then that's just "it" with them.
    It's like, the ISTJ is more about the individual tasks and when you add a skill, to me it seems they append their file more readily. INTJ seems more about the assemblage and what the whole can do. Adding a new data point doesn't necessarily append their belief about who / what you are ?? Somehow ?? It takes more than a couple of Si remembrances ...

    Exploring ..... thanks all for your thoughts so far. As I said, I am putting this out there to refine or shoot down, rather than sharing any kind of conclusions.
    "Remember always that you not only have the right to be an individual, you have an obligation to be one."
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  2. #12
    ⒺⓉⒷ Eric B's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by PeaceBaby View Post
    It's like, the ISTJ is more about the individual tasks and when you add a skill, they append their file. INTJ seems more about the assemblage and what the whole can do. Adding a new data point doesn't necessarily append their belief about who / what you are ?? Somehow ??
    OK, I guess with the ISTJ, it's about "proving yourself", "getting back into good graces", etc. and if you don't (to their satisfaction), then they keep the same belief about you. I guess I was never able to impress them (parents, etc), so it seemed to fit what you're saying.
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  3. #13
    The High Priestess Amargith's Avatar
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    Which INTJ was it that recently mentioned it's a side-effect of the Ni? Something like:'When we get a glimpse of a person, we can extrapolate and reasonably predict what their future behavior will be like, so that's that.'

    Wrt NFPs, he said:' The thing about NFPs is that they're flaky and inconsistent in behavior, making us focus more and take more time to collect the data before an accurate prediction can be made.'

  4. #14
    reborn PeaceBaby's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Eric B View Post
    OK, I guess with the ISTJ, it's about "proving yourself", "getting back into good graces", etc. and if you don't (to their satisfaction), then they keep the same belief about you. I guess I was never able to impress them (parents, etc), so it seemed to fit what you're saying.
    Hmm yes, let me process this more ... share more too, I liked what you posted above.
    "Remember always that you not only have the right to be an individual, you have an obligation to be one."
    Eleanor Roosevelt


    "When people see some things as beautiful,
    other things become ugly.
    When people see some things as good,
    other things become bad."
    Lao Tzu, Tao Te Ching

  5. #15
    reborn PeaceBaby's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Amargith View Post
    Which INTJ was it that recently mentioned it's a side-effect of the Ni? Something like:'When we get a glimpse of a person, we can extrapolate and reasonably predict what their future behavior will be like, so that's that.'

    Wrt NFPs, he said:' The thing about NFPs is that they're flaky and inconsistent in behavior, making us focus more and take more time to collect the data before an accurate prediction can be made.'
    Ha, that's interesting, spoken from the opposite vantage point. That first sentence could sound like an INFJ too, couldn't it, except the "that's that" takes a LOOOOOOT longer to conclusively form ....... INFJ's being so open to people-data.
    "Remember always that you not only have the right to be an individual, you have an obligation to be one."
    Eleanor Roosevelt


    "When people see some things as beautiful,
    other things become ugly.
    When people see some things as good,
    other things become bad."
    Lao Tzu, Tao Te Ching

  6. #16
    Senior Member Nicodemus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by PeaceBaby View Post
    Let me describe what I mean. Once an INTJ has figured out "what you are for" you get categorized into that function and once you are slotted in that spot, it can be difficult to get yourself reassigned from that role.

    Roles can be anything from what the person does best (clear speaker, intuitive coder, interface-creator, customer-satisfyer, gourmet cook) to relationship-based categories (friend, co-worker, love interest) whatever.
    There is something like a doorslam, too, though I would rather describe it as an icy shoulder: the complete withdrawal of respect and attention, people basically falling out of humanity.

  7. #17
    Analytical Dreamer Coriolis's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by highlander View Post
    Do I door slam? Sure. It's very rare though. The person would have to do what I perceived as real harm to me. In that case, I hold a grudge basically forever. There was a person who came up in a conversation just yesterday in fact that I feel this way about. Te dom (probably ENTJ). I hate the guy's guts.
    This is what I would call a doorslam: basically cutting someone out of your life, not wasting any more time/attention on them. I, too, use it sparingly and only in very egregious cases. I can recall only 2 people who have received this treatment from me.

    What the OP describes is more like pigeonholing, as someone mentioned. It focuses on the utility or contribution of a person, not their individuality or humanity as Nicodemus neatly observed. When my default view of someone goes from utility to individuality, they have crossed an important threshold in our interaction/relationship.

    Still, I will readily "upgrade" or expand the utilitarian view of someone. I am actually on the alert to discover what else someone can do, how they can be more useful, or contribute to more activities. I will not hesitate to put a minor player in charge of something once I realize they have the skills/experience to do it.

    It is much harder and less common to change relationship category altogether. That is, from going from an incidental relationship (coworker, neighbor, relative) to a deliberate one (friend, romantic interest, even teacher/student). This requires my trusting the person with additional types of information, and being willing to involve them in different types of information.
    I've been called a criminal, a terrorist, and a threat to the known universe. But everything you were told is a lie. The truth is, they've taken our freedom, our home, and our future. The time has come for all humanity to take a stand...

  8. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by PeaceBaby View Post
    I couldn't think of a better word for what I am trying to describe, so am using a familiar one to get the conversation rolling on this.
    Might I recommend "pigeonholing".

    Quote Originally Posted by highlander View Post
    INTJs are dominant perceivers and not dominant judgers. You're dealing with the general's aid. The general is in the tent. People perceive that we're not open to new information when in fact, that is not the case.
    I like that metaphor.

    Quote Originally Posted by Amargith View Post
    Which INTJ was it that recently mentioned it's a side-effect of the Ni? Something like:'When we get a glimpse of a person, we can extrapolate and reasonably predict what their future behavior will be like, so that's that.'
    Yeah, it's very easy for me to see based off very little behavior who someone is and how they will behave in many differents kinds of situations.

    It's like, I see the archetype of who they are.

    I think everyone does this; I just think Ni doms are better at it.

    Quote Originally Posted by Amargith View Post
    Wrt NFPs, he said:' The thing about NFPs is that they're flaky and inconsistent in behavior, making us focus more and take more time to collect the data before an accurate prediction can be made.'
    Yes; that, and their willingness to make sexy time.

    Quote Originally Posted by Nicodemus View Post
    There is something like a doorslam, too, though I would rather describe it as an icy shoulder: the complete withdrawal of respect and attention, people basically falling out of humanity.
    Yeah, there is, but it's related to the pigeonholing.

    ETA:

    Quote Originally Posted by Coriolis View Post
    What the OP describes is more like pigeonholing, as someone mentioned.
    Well, with your post, I would've said jinx (despite the 10 minute difference).

    Quote Originally Posted by PeaceBaby View Post
    Yes, like that, someone repped me "pigeon-holing" like that one too. Keep the suggestions coming!
    But with this one, well, that's what I get for not reading the whole thread.

    Truth be told, though, PB, I'd say three points make a trend.

    I don't think you're gunna get a much better term for this than pigeonholing.

  9. #19
    4x9 cascadeco's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by PeaceBaby View Post
    Ha, that's interesting, spoken from the opposite vantage point. That first sentence could sound like an INFJ too, couldn't it,
    Yes, it's very relevant to me, at least... and prob. INFJ's in general. Taking a few seemingly random data points about someone and extrapolating (often accurately) to other aspects of them/decisions they would make.

    Quote Originally Posted by Peacebaby
    except the "that's that" takes a LOOOOOOT longer to conclusively form ....... INFJ's being so open to people-data.
    Except I'm not sure about this. Some things take longer to conclusively form, but I totally do the immediate extrapolation thing; maybe in some cases I have probabilities associated with it, though, so might give a few cases more time to get a little more data.

    Tie that in with this -

    Quote Originally Posted by Zarathustra
    Yeah, it's very easy for me to see based off very little behavior who someone is and how they will behave in many differents kinds of situations.

    It's like, I see the archetype of who they are.

    I think everyone does this; I just think Ni doms are better at it.
    Which I'd agree with.
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  10. #20
    Senior Member Santosha's Avatar
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    I'm so glad you posted about this @PeaceBaby. It is exactly what I felt an INTJ do to me while we were partners. It *really* bothered me, and I don't mean to say that all INTJ's do it or would do it the same way or for the same reasons as he did, but I found the strange utilization and categorizing kinda depressing and limited. Did it have to be? No, and I fought it every step of the way. It's like the fi users will get ruffled when an fe user thinks they know them better than they know themselves. Well, my INTJ seemed to think he knew my potential better than I did myself. In hindsight, I wish I had more clarity while it was occuring because I would have embraced the insight he did have and disregarded the limitation. He once told me he was going to write a book on, well.. we'll call it "Huxleyisms" for now.. various perspectives and moral workings I had while we were together. Always boxing it in... Anyhow, years after our relationship INTJ popped back up to tell me that after more reflection and observation (of my facebook page and our shared friends that he seemed to follow my life with) I had "fallen off the chart - data no longer computed".. ah.. the beauty. Anyhow, I completely relate to being pidgeon-holed.

    I wonder, is it so difficult for INTJ to have a value for someone they can't categorize or set a purpose to?
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