[INTP] INTP loving again after multiple heart breaks?

[SoInLove]

I have been dating my INTP for a year and a half. I am in love with him and have been for quite some time. We had never really told each other "I love you." A few weeks ago before going to sleep, I asked him if he knew I loved him. He said he did but said he doesnt say it any more because every time he has in a relationship he has gotten hurt. Now he says he just says "This is it." I completely understand his hesitation. He is a man of his word and he does all sorts of things for me that indicate he cares. (I dont think he would stick around other wise.) But sometimes it would be nice to hear how he feels. There is never any mention of his feelings or emotions.

Anyways... Im not looking to push him into saying it. Im just curious if anyone has any suggestions on showing him he can trust me and I have no intentions of ever hurting him. Also I know this is asked a million times over, but are there any little things I can watch for that will give me some insight into how he feels? I do mention to him that I love him, but he never says anything. (I will admit it kind of stings. But I am in this for the long haul.) I also dont want to over do it either by saying it to much and making it sound hollow. Sorry for rambling...Thanks for reading.

 

[Redbone]

[MENTION=13402]Saturned[/MENTION] idea is beginning to really look good.

There's probably little you can do besides to keep showing how you feel through your actions. INTPs aren't known for successful romantic relationships in the first place, it's infinitely worse if they have been badly hurt. You cannot heal him. He will have to come to healing from the pain of these past relationships in his own way. If he comes to it at all.

I would say if he spends time with you, treats you as wish to be treated (beyond not sharing his feelings with you), and otherwise shows he cares, then he actually does care. INTPs aren't going to waste their time being with someone if they don't care. I can't even imagine doing something like that.

I'm sorry I don't have more productive advice or insight than that. It sounds like you really care about him, so I wish both of you well.

 

[Red Herring]

INTPs aren't exactly big on sharing emotions. And what Redbone is referring to is that we get a looot of stories like yours from females who have issues with their INTP partner. You are not alone in this.

If he has been with you for a year and a half, he cares. If he shares his thoughts and ideas with you and values your thoughts, ideas and opinions, he cares. If he takes you seriously as an intellectual partner, he cares.

Different people have different ways of showing their affection. You might want to read up on "love languages". He might show it through acts of service, through physical touch, through gifts or through words.

Now, if you need the words to feel more secure in your relationship, there is nothing wrong with calmly stating your needs. We can be sort of oblivious, so it might be necessary to spell things out to us every once in a while.

As for trust building, I don't think there is a magical solution for that. It grows over time through constant daily proof of reliabilty and stability. If he really is as damaged as you say, it has nothing to do with you and all with his own healing process. There is not too much you can contribute to that, just be there when he needs you.

By the way, both my ex and my current bf are very sweet and loving fellow-INTPs. They aren't emotionally expressive, but that doesn't mean the emotions aren't there. They make for wonderful partners if what they have to offer is what you are looking for in a partner - that's the trick, really.

 

[Rasofy]

Perhaps [MENTION=2885]raindancing[/MENTION] could give you some advice. She's an INFP married with an INTP.

Fwiw, if he likes you romantically and treats you like an intellectual equal, that could be called his version of ''love''. INTPs can be quite laconic about emotional matters.

 

[SoInLove]

Thanks for the replies! I have never heard of the book. Will have to check it out. He treats me and my kids wonderfully. I knew INTP's aren't always the most forth coming with emotions. I have told him before that I wished I knew how he felt. His reply was that he knew how he felt. I didnt know what to say. In the beginning of our relationship I told him that I felt like he didn't trust me. He told me that it will happen. Thats when I realized that the relationship was going to be slow moving. I enjoy his company, so as lobg as we spend time together, thats all I care about. I just happened to Fall in love along the way.

 

[Amargith]

I'd say..be his emotional rock and don't expect *anything* from him aside from what he's giving you now. If he gets confirmed time and time again that you are emotionally there for him, reliable and trustworthy, he might just have a small chance of getting over his fears. Also, test your lovelanguages. It seems words of affirmation is one of yours. See what his are, and what your second is. If you share one of those, it'll be easier for you to use that as an expression and way of fulfilling that need you have to hear him express his love

 

[Fluffywolf]

Sounds like he gets the space he needs, knows your intentions, and feels in control of his. Judging from your post it is safe to assume he loves you back.

Although I must say I've never been keen on saying I love you either. Not because of being hurt or anything, but because I don't think three little words would be sufficient to explain a very complex emotion. The concept of love is under constant scrutiny by our inner selves. Constantly shaped and altered in a Ti framework. Saying that we love someone is therefor (especially if we have a lot of feelings for that person) quite hard. Try asking him if he has a lot of feelings for you. Rather than asking him if he loves he. It's a subtle difference but a question that vibes much better with our cognative processes.

 

[raindancing]

I have been dating my INTP for a year and a half. I am in love with him and have been for quite some time. We had never really told each other "I love you." A few weeks ago before going to sleep, I asked him if he knew I loved him. He said he did but said he doesnt say it any more because every time he has in a relationship he has gotten hurt. Now he says he just says "This is it." I completely understand his hesitation. He is a man of his word and he does all sorts of things for me that indicate he cares. (I dont think he would stick around other wise.) But sometimes it would be nice to hear how he feels. There is never any mention of his feelings or emotions.

I've been married to an INTP for 14 years, and while I haven't had the same experience as you, I can relate...

My husband never had trouble with the 'I love you' part, but he had never been hurt. However, especially at the beginning of our relationship, he never volunteered the words unless I spoke them first. As far as I can remember, he didn't voluntarily speak of feelings at all, I think a large part of him didn't see the need. I finally talked to him about it, because I was confused. He considered that repeating the same thing was just redundant. Wasn't it evident from his actions? And of course it was.
I explained, that to me, it never felt redundant, that it made me very happy each time I heard words of love. He argued that the words would loose their impact if spoken too often.

Even now, after 14 years, he (normally) doesn't talk about how he feels (about anything, not just me) unless I prompt him. A lot of times it takes quite an effort. He doesn't exactly resist, it's just he isn't really aware of the feelings. So it takes a decent amount of probing. But he humors me.
And if I want his feelings about something specific regarding me, I really just have to ask. That took me a long time to come to terms with... it requires painful directness.

Have you asked him about his feelings on very specific matters? With my husband, general questions about feelings are meant with
Though even the answer to specific ones can make me
'How does it make you feel when X' (X being something very specific, but I'm struggling to think of any examples right now)
INTP answers, 'Um... good?"
Sigh.
What I suggest:
Seriously. Our best 'feeling' conversations are always when he's had a few drinks. It's like he can access that part of himself more easily.

I don't know if other INTPs are like this, but my husband actually likes me analyzing the hell out of him sometimes.

He said he did but said he doesnt say it any more because every time he has in a relationship he has gotten hurt. Now he says he just says "This is it."

This part here sounds like he has substituted a different term for 'I love you', is that what he meant do you think?
For my husband, all the standard, traditionally accepted terms and ceremonies have no bearing.
Could the words 'this is it' have more meaning for your INTP than the words 'i love you'?

Anyways... Im not looking to push him into saying it. Im just curious if anyone has any suggestions on showing him he can trust me and I have no intentions of ever hurting him. Also I know this is asked a million times over, but are there any little things I can watch for that will give me some insight into how he feels? I do mention to him that I love him, but he never says anything. (I will admit it kind of stings. But I am in this for the long haul.) I also dont want to over do it either by saying it to much and making it sound hollow. Sorry for rambling...Thanks for reading.

Not pushing; this, more than anything, has led to a harmonious relationship for my husband and I. We have had a few issues where I've had to embrace that. Probably the biggest was having children. I knew I wanted some in the future, he wasn't entirely against it, but was very unsure. I was careful not to push him. We would talk about it occasionally, and I mainly kept the discussion revolving around his point of view, pondering the different issues and uncertainties together. I really didn't want it to become something antagonistic, you know? Eventually he came to realize that I understood where he was coming from, and from there he began to explore the positive aspects of having children. We have a little boy now, 23 months old

If he ever feels like he's being pushed... mules have nothing on him. It's about the one sure way to make sure he won't do something. (A fact his ISTJ mother still hasn't learned hehe) However, it does make for fantastic teasing fodder

You mentioned that you say you love him and he never says anything. That can't be pleasant.
I don't know how it's said or what his reaction is specifically like, but for my husband, that sort of thing *could* come across as pushing. (This could especially be the case if your INTP realizes you're wanting/hoping for a response and he's not giving it.)
Are you saying 'I love you' for his benefit or for yours? Because honestly if it's for his, he probably doesn't need it. (If he needed it, he would probably be saying it to you)
I think the suggestions about figuring out his love language are really good. For my husband it's pretty much tied between physical touch and quality time and it is very apparent that those things make him feel loved, much more than words of affirmation ever do.

As for little things to watch for? Well that's probably so individual. But I can give you some examples from my husband, whether they're helpful or not...

Talking about ideas, theories, things that catch his interest. - This, so much more than feelings, is what my husband is interested in. And it makes him so happy when I join him in the topics, become fascinated with him, or even just ask him to explain something I don't understand.

He does little random thoughtful things. Like gives me his jacket if he notices I look cold (if he notices, the key phrase here ), notices I'm tired in the morning so looks after our son while I get some extra sleep, brings me a tea or cappuccino when I'm writing just cause, insists on carrying all the bags (which can get hilarious at times), drops me off outside the shop doors if it's raining or really cold... I could go on.
Never demands, but is always there.
Oh I just thought of a big one. He listens to me. Really truly listens, to anything I say. It's something he doesn't do with anyone else.



Ok this post got out of control. I don't have time to go over it, so apologies if it's unreadable in spots! Feel free to msg me if you want.

 

[Rasofy]

I explained, that to me, it never felt redundant, that it made me very happy each time I heard words of love. He argued that the words would loose their impact if spoken too often.

Pshh, great advice. As usual.

 

[SoInLove]

Thank you for the great reply!

"And if I want his feelings about something specific regarding me, I really just have to ask. That took me a long time to come to terms with... it requires painful directness."


In the beginning of our relationship, (before I realized that it is more his personality not to talk about feelings) I asked him once if he was happy. He said that he was and if something was wrong he would tell me. I can appreciate that, but at the same time it doesn't tell me what he is feeling. This is not something that I NEED to hear. I only wanted to know we were on the same page. I don't like assuming things, and when he hadn't said anything it was my way of confirming.


"What I suggest:
Seriously. Our best 'feeling' conversations are always when he's had a few drinks. It's like he can access that part of himself more easily.I don't know if other INTPs are like this, but my husband actually likes me analyzing the hell out of him sometimes."


This was the only way I had the courage to ask him if he knew I loved him. Thats when he told me the whole bit about "This is it." He definitely is more open when he drinks, but so am I. I know how hard it is for him to deal with feelings, but I also worry that I will go over board, so I tend to sensor what I say. I have told him so and he asks me why. I'm not hiding anything, I just don't want to freak him out. As for the analyzing... Does over analyzing things count?


"He said he did but said he doesnt say it any more because every time he has in a relationship he has gotten hurt. Now he says he just says "This is it."

This part here sounds like he has substituted a different term for 'I love you', is that what he meant do you think?
For my husband, all the standard, traditionally accepted terms and ceremonies have no bearing.
Could the words 'this is it' have more meaning for your INTP than the words 'i love you'?

I would love to think that he substituted the words, but again I hate assuming things. He is good at avoiding things when it comes to feelings. I don't know if he said it because he didn't want to say it or if he was substituting. I really truely think he is just afraid of getting hurt, so he tries to not become to attached.

You mentioned that you say you love him and he never says anything. That can't be pleasant.
I don't know how it's said or what his reaction is specifically like, but for my husband, that sort of thing *could* come across as pushing. (This could especially be the case if your INTP realizes you're wanting/hoping for a response and he's not giving it.)
Are you saying 'I love you' for his benefit or for yours? Because honestly if it's for his, he probably doesn't need it. (If he needed it, he would probably be saying it to you)

When I tell him that I love him it has never been directly. He had asked me to do something that I wouldn't normally do. So I said, " As much as I love you, I'm not going to ...." I kind of figured that if I just start throwing it around it's not going to mean as much. So I don't say it often. I do call him "Love" sometimes when I am talking to him. I have also on occassion called one of the kids "Love." He has called me out on this. So I know this is something I need to watch. Obviously he knows its different, but I think it "takes away" from my intended meaning. I did the love language quiz and mine is quality time and physical touch. So I don't necessarily need to hear him say it, cause the other things make me feel loved. Sometimes I just like to have a little confirmation. If it were up to me I would have told him around the 4 month mark. Not because I wanted him to say it, but because thats what I was feeling.

 

[A window to the soul]

Thank you for the great reply!

"And if I want his feelings about something specific regarding me, I really just have to ask. That took me a long time to come to terms with... it requires painful directness."


In the beginning of our relationship, (before I realized that it is more his personality not to talk about feelings) I asked him once if he was happy. He said that he was and if something was wrong he would tell me. I can appreciate that, but at the same time it doesn't tell me what he is feeling. This is not something that I NEED to hear. I only wanted to know we were on the same page. I don't like assuming things, and when he hadn't said anything it was my way of confirming.


"What I suggest:
Seriously. Our best 'feeling' conversations are always when he's had a few drinks. It's like he can access that part of himself more easily.I don't know if other INTPs are like this, but my husband actually likes me analyzing the hell out of him sometimes."


This was the only way I had the courage to ask him if he knew I loved him. Thats when he told me the whole bit about "This is it." He definitely is more open when he drinks, but so am I. I know how hard it is for him to deal with feelings, but I also worry that I will go over board, so I tend to sensor what I say. I have told him so and he asks me why. I'm not hiding anything, I just don't want to freak him out. As for the analyzing... Does over analyzing things count?


"He said he did but said he doesnt say it any more because every time he has in a relationship he has gotten hurt. Now he says he just says "This is it."

This part here sounds like he has substituted a different term for 'I love you', is that what he meant do you think?
For my husband, all the standard, traditionally accepted terms and ceremonies have no bearing.
Could the words 'this is it' have more meaning for your INTP than the words 'i love you'?

I would love to think that he substituted the words, but again I hate assuming things. He is good at avoiding things when it comes to feelings. I don't know if he said it because he didn't want to say it or if he was substituting. I really truely think he is just afraid of getting hurt, so he tries to not become to attached.

You mentioned that you say you love him and he never says anything. That can't be pleasant.
I don't know how it's said or what his reaction is specifically like, but for my husband, that sort of thing *could* come across as pushing. (This could especially be the case if your INTP realizes you're wanting/hoping for a response and he's not giving it.)
Are you saying 'I love you' for his benefit or for yours? Because honestly if it's for his, he probably doesn't need it. (If he needed it, he would probably be saying it to you)

When I tell him that I love him it has never been directly. He had asked me to do something that I wouldn't normally do. So I said, " As much as I love you, I'm not going to ...." I kind of figured that if I just start throwing it around it's not going to mean as much. So I don't say it often. I do call him "Love" sometimes when I am talking to him. I have also on occassion called one of the kids "Love." He has called me out on this. So I know this is something I need to watch. Obviously he knows its different, but I think it "takes away" from my intended meaning. I did the love language quiz and mine is quality time and physical touch. So I don't necessarily need to hear him say it, cause the other things make me feel loved. Sometimes I just like to have a little confirmation. If it were up to me I would have told him around the 4 month mark. Not because I wanted him to say it, but because thats what I was feeling.

Men don't like to be asked how they feel because they don't know what you want them to be feeling in the moment. If he's spending a lot of time with you, he likes you.

My advice is to stop asking him how he feels about you. It's just like with women, words and actions sometimes contradict. If you want to know how someone really feels about you, look at their actions.

If that leaves a huge void in your heart because your primary love language is 'words of affirmation', then INTP may not be your best match.

 

[A window to the soul]

Since you mentioned your primary love languages are quality time and physical touch, I think there's more to this story. I am having a hard time believing that three little words will satisfy you in the way you imagine.

I challenge you to look deep within yourself at your feelings. What do you *really* want from him? Closeness? Affection?

 

[SoInLove]

Since you mentioned your primary love languages are quality time and physical touch, I think there's more to this story. I am having a hard time believing that three little words will satisfy you in the way you imagine.

I challenge you to look deep within yourself at your feelings. What do you *really* want from him? Closeness? Affection?

Thanks for the reply! I can appreciate your comment about not asking him because he doesn't know how I want him to be feeling. I didn't think about that. I've been thinking about your 2 posts for a little bit. Of course there is always more to a story. I can't complain about affection. He is always affectionate as far as touch. When I tell him things like "You know I love you, right?" or any other reference to loving him, I say those things because I want him to know. I know I can't force anyone to say or respond how I want them too. As I was thinking about it though, I realized that the reason I am looking for any kind of answer goes back to wanting to know that we are on the same page as to where the relationship is going. I need to trust more that if there is something up, he will tell me and not be so insecure about it. He also tells me things little bits at a time about his past relationships. In my past relationships, I have always been straight forward about it. I tried being straight forward with him and have always been honest, however when I tried to tell him about a couple things he stopped me from telling him. He said that he wanted us to get to know one another based on the present, not on our pasts. (He had told me a few things by that point) I think just because he thought if I told him, I would expect him to tell me, and he wasn't ready. I do feel close to him, but I guess it is also more closeness that I am looking for. I think it will come as the relationship continues and he learns to trust me. Thanks for posting those thoughts, it made me realize some things about myself.

 

[A window to the soul]

What do you admire about him? Serious question.

 

[SoInLove]

What do you admire about him? Serious question.

So I had a nice long reply all typed out and it disappeared when I tried to post it. So let me try again...

He is the most calm and laid back, family oriented, hard working, forgiving but not to be crossed,trust worthy, caring and giving man I have ever met. He is a man of his word and a man of action. I admire that he doesn't feel like he needs to have a vast amount of material things and only buys what he and his daughter need. He has never really bought me a gift, but when he has noticed that myself or one of my kids has needed something, he has always stepped up to do what he could. He can cook like no other. (I can't.) I am just as happy to sit at home on a Friday night and eat ramen noodles or pizza and watch TV with him then to go out and eat at an expensive restaurant. (That is what we did the entire first half of our relationship because of custody arrangements) In all honesty we could sit and do nothing and I would still be happy just because I am with him. He is the first person to offer family or friends any type of help he can offer. When his ex or mine says or does something dramatic, he doesn't let them know he is upset or become dramatic himself. He is my best friend and I trust him like I trust no other. That in itself is huge for me. I struggled myself with trusting after my divorce and my first relationship post divorce.

 

[raindancing]

Thank you for the great reply!
In the beginning of our relationship, (before I realized that it is more his personality not to talk about feelings) I asked him once if he was happy. He said that he was and if something was wrong he would tell me. I can appreciate that, but at the same time it doesn't tell me what he is feeling. This is not something that I NEED to hear. I only wanted to know we were on the same page. I don't like assuming things, and when he hadn't said anything it was my way of confirming.

No problem I can talk about this stuff forever.

I don't know how your INTP is, but with my husband he might *say* he would tell me if something was wrong, but most the time he doesn't. I think he would if the issue became big enough, but personally I want to resolve things before they become large problems.

There's been a number of times when he's obviously been upset but when I ask him about it he won't talk about it. One time I finally got fed up and asked him if he would at least confirm something was wrong so I wouldn't be wondering if my perceptions were false. He apologized, obviously he didn't realize how much it bothered me, and said it was hard for him to confirm because he hadn't decided if the feeling was irrational. Apparently if it was irrational he wouldn't allow himself to be upset?

I guess all I can say is, if you feel you really need to know something, ask him directly, explain that it's important to you, but try not to be overwhelming about it. Just take things slowly in this area. With my husband, we had many discussions over many years, trying to come to terms (well mainly me trying to come to terms) with his display of emotion. I was always very careful to sense his reaction and back off if he seemed to be getting too uncomfortable, especially in the beginning of the relationship. I was probably too cautious, to be honest. He's a lot more resilient than I originally realized.
(Now I'm more likely to shove him onto the bed, pour him a whisky, and tell him we're talking about feelings. To which he would probably grin and say 'oh I love your euphemisms.')

This was the only way I had the courage to ask him if he knew I loved him. Thats when he told me the whole bit about "This is it." He definitely is more open when he drinks, but so am I. I know how hard it is for him to deal with feelings, but I also worry that I will go over board, so I tend to sensor what I say. I have told him so and he asks me why. I'm not hiding anything, I just don't want to freak him out. As for the analyzing... Does over analyzing things count?

Yea I used to sensor myself a lot, always worried I would scare him away. Part of this was me learning to trust him. It wasn't just one way.

It sounds like you're probably doing things right, be honest, be patient, don't push. Are you ok with the rate that things are progressing?

Over analyzing, I know no other way

When I tell him that I love him it has never been directly [...]
So I know this is something I need to watch. Obviously he knows its different, but I think it "takes away" from my intended meaning. I did the love language quiz and mine is quality time and physical touch. So I don't necessarily need to hear him say it, cause the other things make me feel loved. Sometimes I just like to have a little confirmation.

Yea I'd just be really careful about this. If it was me (and really I hate giving advice since I don't know him at all, or the situation... so take everything with a liberal grain of salt), I'd lean more toward not saying anything about love, but tell him what about him (and what he does) that makes me happy, feel good, feel special, etc. I would keep it dispassionate for the most part, just informing him of my perceptions. No expectation of any reciprocation. I do this with my husband all the time and he responds to it really well. (And if I want reciprocation, I directly ask lol, otherwise I don't get it)

A rather ephemeral example: instead of saying he looks nice, I might say, impassively, 'I particularly like the way the cut of that shirt fits, accentuating your shoulders. I think in general I like these longer, slender tops, they highlight your features particularly well. [and on, because i do love makin an INTP blush] But not that jacket. It makes you look like a serial killer.'

Ok that example was stupid
Sigh. Let's see... You mentioned somewhere else in the thread the things you admire in him. Do you tell him these things? Calmly, giving your reasons for holding the opinion. That would probably make him feel more loved than talking about love in general. Love is, after all, a concept that differs from person to person with no universally agreed definition.

I don't know, I feel like I'm floundering about it tiredness now, rambling on without sense.

 

[SoInLove]

I could talk about it forever too... My INTP does tell me that he would let me know if something was wrong. I've noticed that over time its the little things/ details that he notices and lets me know about. For instance I call him "Love" and have for a while now. On occassion I have called one of my kids or his kid by that name as well. I honestly didn't realize that I did it because I really don't call the kids that on a regular basis. One night we had a few drinks and he brought this up. Now I know that it bothers him that I sometimes call them that and try not to. It makes me wonder though if there was something bigger bothering him if he would bring it up. My point being he brings up observations and not so much feelings. Maybe there is nothing bothering him, but when he makes an observation about something, I try to pick up on what he is getting at.

I'm really trying not to be pushy with it. I've said my thoughts and feelings, now I guess I should let it sit with him. It's hard sometimes for me not to let on how I'm feeling. Especially when I'm that passionate about it. Thats also why I also state everything as an "I feel" statement and not question him about his feelings. I figure if he wants to say something, he will say it in his own time. I'm learning not to sensor myself so much. I told him once that I did and he said I should just say what I feel. I'm sure it made me look like I was hiding something. But I am always honest with him.

I am okay at the rate things are progressing. If he needs to move slow, I'm okay with that. He has dealt with alot from the ex wife and I'm not sure about the other girlfriend(s). We have only been together going on 2 years, so it's not like it has been years and years and he is still not saying as much. I have no expectations or time line for the relationship. My only thing is that I like knowing that we are on similar pages as far as where we are at and where we are heading.

I like your shirt example. I will have to try that. I'm lucky if I even get any form of confirmation as to whether my appearance is good bad or indifferent. He did tell me once that my willingness to hang out on the weekends when we couldn't really go anywhere (kid was in bed by the time I got off work) was one of the things he liked about me. So maybe the example thing is the way to go.

 

[raindancing]

I'm lucky if I even get any form of confirmation as to whether my appearance is good bad or indifferent.

Ha! That doesn't change with time.
Even if I ask, 'how do I look?'
The response is likely to be 'fine'
So it requires more overtness. Spin around, 'And which part, specifically, is your favorite?'
I generally get an answer then.

(But one nice thing about the obliviousness, he doesn't notice when I look like shit either)

 

[Fluffywolf]

Ha! That doesn't change with time.
Even if I ask, 'how do I look?'
The response is likely to be 'fine'
So it requires more overtness. Spin around, 'And which part, specifically, is your favorite?'
I generally get an answer then.

(But one nice thing about the obliviousness, he doesn't notice when I look like shit either)

Your enlightening information about the inner workings of INTP's is classified information!

Did you not sign a non-disclosure before engaging intimite relations with an INTP?

 

[raindancing]

Your enlightening information about the inner workings of INTP's is classified information!

Did you not sign a non-disclosure before engaging intimite relations with an INTP?

Ah he was young and naive when he met me too