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[ENTP] ENTPs and Authority

Myrtle

New member
Joined
Jul 31, 2009
Messages
85
MBTI Type
ENTP
Enneagram
7
entp are the most rational of rational in that element. it's only perceived as a suck up. if it was visa versa, the other may see it as a suck up when, the whole time, they're neutral. they get along for the sake of civilization. because civilization is rational.

Yeah I think im very objective, and dont take sides much in conflicts, however when you try to explain the other persons point of view you often get attacked for taking their side...
 

The Great One

New member
Joined
Apr 27, 2012
Messages
3,439
MBTI Type
ENTP
Enneagram
6w7
Yeah I think im very objective, and dont take sides much in conflicts, however when you try to explain the other persons point of view you often get attacked for taking their side...

This this is what fucks me up. I'm actually pretty damn subjective in conflicts. Now I'm getting even more confused about my type.
 
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WALMART

Guest
This this is what fucks me up. I'm actually pretty damn subjective in conflicts. Now I'm getting even more confused about my type.


What are you confused about?

ENTP's argue objective statements subjectively... or that's how I feel I go about things.
 

The Great One

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6w7
What are you confused about?

ENTP's argue objective statements subjectively... or that's how I feel I go about things.

What I mean is that I'm very good at arguing points and using evidence to win arguments, but I often get very emotionally tied into arguments. I really had to work hard on this not to get emotional in arguments.
 
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WALMART

Guest
What I mean is that I'm very good at arguing points and using evidence to win arguments, but I often get very emotionally tied into arguments. I really had to work hard on this not to get emotional in arguments.


Why would that make you not ENTP? Or am I assuming too much.... does it reaffirm your belief in your ENTPness?
 

The Great One

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6w7
Why would that make you not ENTP? Or am I assuming too much.... does it reaffirm your belief in your ENTPness?

I thought ENTP types were very objective and emotionless when they argue. They don't seem to let emotions cloud their judgement and do what is logical and what makes sense to them?
 
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WALMART

Guest
I thought ENTP types were very objective and emotionless when they argue. They don't seem to let emotions cloud their judgement and do what is logical and what makes sense to them?


Dude, I don't know what I was reading. When I read your post I thought you said you didn't get emotional, and worked very hard to stay non-emotional in arguments. My bad.



Well, I suppose it depends. When you get emotional in arguments, are they arguments about subjects you feel you are well read on?
 

The Great One

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3,439
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ENTP
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6w7
Dude, I don't know what I was reading. When I read your post I thought you said you didn't get emotional, and worked very hard to stay non-emotional in arguments. My bad.



Well, I suppose it depends. When you get emotional in arguments, are they arguments about subjects you feel you are well read on?

1. Sometimes I lose my temper and get pissed when arguing about something I really know that I am right about and the other person is making me look like a fool.
2. Sometimes I can get emotional when I am arguing about something I strongly believe in. (which I must admit sounds Fi)
3. Often times I get emotional and feel great fear when I know that the other person that I am arguing against is more intelligent than me and that I will probably lose. That makes me afraid.
 

Myrtle

New member
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Jul 31, 2009
Messages
85
MBTI Type
ENTP
Enneagram
7
1. Sometimes I lose my temper and get pissed when arguing about something I really know that I am right about and the other person is making me look like a fool.
2. Sometimes I can get emotional when I am arguing about something I strongly believe in. (which I must admit sounds Fi)
3. Often times I get emotional and feel great fear when I know that the other person that I am arguing against is more intelligent than me and that I will probably lose. That makes me afraid.

I can relate to this. There is a certain frustration arguing I admit that. But mostley I find im trying to get the person to look at the other perspective, I dont really care if they agree with me or admits that "I'm right". What i find importent is showing that other perspectives are in place. I think this is greatly a Ne+Ti trait that we as ENTPs poses.

Other types have a hard time dealing with many perspectives at ones from a logical standpoint. So if i can get them to see it and acknowledge that im pretty content. Persuading someone to believe in your point is very very hard unless them themselves do have a set point to begin with. Try persuading an INTP to change their views in something they have put some thought into it wont happens. INTPs though will readily see your point of view.

I often ask the other person to desribe my point of view after saying they get it, usually the dont, they are so eager to get there evidence across that they dont listen to a word. Here you can make them look foolish if thats your goal.

So I imagine a crowd (if there isent any) and convince them. Thats really what debating is about, you will never see a serious debate where one person submits to the others opinion.

However some types are hard to even discuss with I find ESXJs especially hard...

Then again I get upset alot of the times with bad deductive or inducive reasoning and they cant even comprehend the concepts, its frustrating. The trick is not minding and keeping a poker face, I think this is what a lot of ENTPs do, they convey there emotions alot out of fear, or im just projecting myself onto other ENTPs right now.
 
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WALMART

Guest
LOL, the one thing I hate about this forum is the pooled intelligence =/


I feel inadequate when someone starts talking about string theory because I'm afraid my string theory isn't as versed as their string theory. I prefer people to say, "string what?" when I talk to them, lol.




As for the topic, ENTP's get emotional. Arguing is emotional tugging, it's only natural. As an ENTP, are you okay with conceding your correctness when ample evidence is presented?
 

The Great One

New member
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3,439
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6w7
I can relate to this. There is a certain frustration arguing I admit that. But mostley I find im trying to get the person to look at the other perspective, I dont really care if they agree with me or admits that "I'm right". What i find importent is showing that other perspectives are in place. I think this is greatly a Ne+Ti trait that we as ENTPs poses.

Other types have a hard time dealing with many perspectives at ones from a logical standpoint. So if i can get them to see it and acknowledge that im pretty content. Persuading someone to believe in your point is very very hard unless them themselves do have a set point to begin with. Try persuading an INTP to change their views in something they have put some thought into it wont happens. INTPs though will readily see your point of view.

I often ask the other person to desribe my point of view after saying they get it, usually the dont, they are so eager to get there evidence across that they dont listen to a word. Here you can make them look foolish if thats your goal.

So I imagine a crowd (if there isent any) and convince them. Thats really what debating is about, you will never see a serious debate where one person submits to the others opinion.

However some types are hard to even discuss with I find ESXJs especially hard...

Then again I get upset alot of the times with bad deductive or inducive reasoning and they cant even comprehend the concepts, its frustrating. The trick is not minding and keeping a poker face, I think this is what a lot of ENTPs do, they convey there emotions alot out of fear, or im just projecting myself onto other ENTPs right now.

I'm glad someone else can relate, but do you sometimes get emotional when arguing as well. Also, I hate arguing with the SJ's as well. Often times they piss me off some much that I just want to give them a back-handed pimp slap. Also, I thought Ne, Ti, and Ni could see multiple perspectives of a situation?
 

Myrtle

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Jul 31, 2009
Messages
85
MBTI Type
ENTP
Enneagram
7
As for the topic, ENTP's get emotional. Arguing is emotional tugging, it's only natural. As an ENTP, are you okay with conceding your correctness when ample evidence is presented?

Reluctantly, yes. Sometimes it can take a day or two...
 
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WALMART

Guest
Reluctantly, yes. Sometimes it can take a day or two...


Well, that's good. I'm no psychology expert, but I feel it'd be fair to say as an ENTP you should be fairly quick to concede a point... WHEN you're wrong, of course. Which probably doesn't happen too often :D
 

Winds of Thor

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Jan 11, 2009
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3w4
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sx/so
As an ENTP, are you okay with conceding your correctness when ample evidence is presented?

I'm afraid this has to do with the context through which various types believe what is taking place...some might have the disposition being right or wrong also is somewhat of a power thing. Others may see it as an emotional risk, it can vary. The thing is, an ENTP might be incorrect. IMO don't expect them go along though, necessarily within the context being made as to them being incorrect.

They might be likely to see being incorrect as a non sequitur. And could be perfectly happy saying they were incorrect. Especially because..in stating the fact of being incorrect, one is in fact, correct.
 

durentu

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Mar 18, 2008
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411
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INTP
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5w4
Do you work where I do? I find your post most psychic. He is indeed involved in a job that is rather typical for ISFJs and one which I consider extremely unsuitable for an ENTP. I have wanted to ask him why he went into the area of work that he did but he is the type of guy who is easily able to use your own words to harm you (often by going to complain to his managers) so I say very, very little to him.

He does seem to be seeking a promotion but it kind of hurts me to see an ENTP not using their inventive mind but going along with any stupid crap that the managers says should be done and enforcing their retarded rules with vigour. I think he is rather unhappy as well because he constantly seems to be complaining/fussing about something really, really petty and I mean really petty and seeing 'a fly in the ointment' where non exists. For instance, he seems to always be asking about smells in the environment that no one else can detect, not even the sensors.

In the past, I have known ENTPs who defy authority and then give into to it often under pressure but this guy seems to be living out his ISFJ shadow, like you see all these ISFJs traits in him but they are perverted in a really bad way.

You don't understand. I don't use MBTI to explain or excuse his behavior. Because, MBTI is not designed to describe why someone does something. You have to go to philosophy for that.

And besides, I don't have to work where you are because you just asked an ENTIRE group of people who don't work where you are. If you need a response that requires that information, you'd be asking your co-workers. right?

If you really are worried, concerned about him - then you must ask him yourself. MBTI will not tell you anything, and neither would a bunch of anonymous people on the internet.

MBTI is not a replacement for God. They are both sources for non-answers.
 

Myrtle

New member
Joined
Jul 31, 2009
Messages
85
MBTI Type
ENTP
Enneagram
7
I'm afraid this has to do with the context through which various types believe what is taking place...some might have the disposition being right or wrong also is somewhat of a power thing. Others may see it as an emotional risk, it can vary. The thing is, an ENTP might be incorrect. IMO don't expect them go along though, necessarily within the context being made as to them being incorrect.

They might be likely to see being incorrect as a non sequitur. And could be perfectly happy saying they were incorrect. Especially because..in stating the fact of being incorrect, one is in fact, correct.

+1 this happens alot

"just say that you where wrong on X"

WTF, why is it so importent to them that I am wrong, I don't really care if I am, but when someone says that I'm not gonna admit to anything.

If we are having a discussion and the other person makes a sensible argument and aren't an ass i will readily admit to being wrong.
 

Winds of Thor

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+1 this happens alot

"just say that you where wrong on X"

WTF, why is it so importent to them that I am wrong, I don't really care if I am, but when someone says that I'm not gonna admit to anything.

If we are having a discussion and the other person makes a sensible argument and aren't an ass i will readily admit to being wrong.

Can't speak for others, while it may be that some could have become jealous? and have chosen to attempt to make an impact?

Comments from other types, please respond. Maybe we could all learn something here? :D
 

Myrtle

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Jul 31, 2009
Messages
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MBTI Type
ENTP
Enneagram
7
Can't speak for others, while it may be that some could have become jealous? and have chosen to attempt to make an impact.

Comments from other types, please respond. Maybe we could all learn something :D.

Not a specific type thing, or maybe, I dont get this very often from N types, or SP types, its mostly SJ types I guess. not sure thou...

Yeah I think alot of time its insecurities from the other person manifesting itself in a "I have to be right" type of way. However Im sure I come of as a person that "wants to have all the right answers" and sometimes it might not seem to others that I am open to suggestions and that the discussion for me is a way of checking my information.

They get the feeling that I need to be taken down a peg and try to make an impact missing the whole point of a discussion. I want the discussion to be a positive intersection between people exploring information and theories. But if someone is aggressive towards me I usually respond in kind and i have to keep myself from using the meaner tools in my arsenal cause my main objective isen't a personal attack but it seems theirs are alot of the time.
 

BlackCat

Shaman
Joined
Nov 19, 2008
Messages
7,038
MBTI Type
ESFP
Enneagram
9w8
Instinctual Variant
sx/sp
Thats not a entp problem. Thats a problem of enneagram 6 and enneagram 3.

I never suck up to authority unless it serves some purpose.

Yes. What does this have to do with NeTi?
 
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