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  1. #31
    Senior Member The Great One's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Myrtle View Post
    I can relate to this. There is a certain frustration arguing I admit that. But mostley I find im trying to get the person to look at the other perspective, I dont really care if they agree with me or admits that "I'm right". What i find importent is showing that other perspectives are in place. I think this is greatly a Ne+Ti trait that we as ENTPs poses.

    Other types have a hard time dealing with many perspectives at ones from a logical standpoint. So if i can get them to see it and acknowledge that im pretty content. Persuading someone to believe in your point is very very hard unless them themselves do have a set point to begin with. Try persuading an INTP to change their views in something they have put some thought into it wont happens. INTPs though will readily see your point of view.

    I often ask the other person to desribe my point of view after saying they get it, usually the dont, they are so eager to get there evidence across that they dont listen to a word. Here you can make them look foolish if thats your goal.

    So I imagine a crowd (if there isent any) and convince them. Thats really what debating is about, you will never see a serious debate where one person submits to the others opinion.

    However some types are hard to even discuss with I find ESXJs especially hard...

    Then again I get upset alot of the times with bad deductive or inducive reasoning and they cant even comprehend the concepts, its frustrating. The trick is not minding and keeping a poker face, I think this is what a lot of ENTPs do, they convey there emotions alot out of fear, or im just projecting myself onto other ENTPs right now.
    I'm glad someone else can relate, but do you sometimes get emotional when arguing as well. Also, I hate arguing with the SJ's as well. Often times they piss me off some much that I just want to give them a back-handed pimp slap. Also, I thought Ne, Ti, and Ni could see multiple perspectives of a situation?

  2. #32
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    Quote Originally Posted by jontherobot View Post
    As for the topic, ENTP's get emotional. Arguing is emotional tugging, it's only natural. As an ENTP, are you okay with conceding your correctness when ample evidence is presented?
    Reluctantly, yes. Sometimes it can take a day or two...

  3. #33
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    Quote Originally Posted by Myrtle View Post
    Reluctantly, yes. Sometimes it can take a day or two...

    Well, that's good. I'm no psychology expert, but I feel it'd be fair to say as an ENTP you should be fairly quick to concede a point... WHEN you're wrong, of course. Which probably doesn't happen too often

  4. #34
    Senior Member Winds of Thor's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by jontherobot View Post
    As an ENTP, are you okay with conceding your correctness when ample evidence is presented?
    I'm afraid this has to do with the context through which various types believe what is taking place...some might have the disposition being right or wrong also is somewhat of a power thing. Others may see it as an emotional risk, it can vary. The thing is, an ENTP might be incorrect. IMO don't expect them go along though, necessarily within the context being made as to them being incorrect.

    They might be likely to see being incorrect as a non sequitur. And could be perfectly happy saying they were incorrect. Especially because..in stating the fact of being incorrect, one is in fact, correct.
    "..And the eight and final rule: If this is your first time at Fight Club, you have to fight."
    'Men are meant to be with women. The rest is perversion and mental illness.'

  5. #35
    Senior Member durentu's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ten View Post
    Do you work where I do? I find your post most psychic. He is indeed involved in a job that is rather typical for ISFJs and one which I consider extremely unsuitable for an ENTP. I have wanted to ask him why he went into the area of work that he did but he is the type of guy who is easily able to use your own words to harm you (often by going to complain to his managers) so I say very, very little to him.

    He does seem to be seeking a promotion but it kind of hurts me to see an ENTP not using their inventive mind but going along with any stupid crap that the managers says should be done and enforcing their retarded rules with vigour. I think he is rather unhappy as well because he constantly seems to be complaining/fussing about something really, really petty and I mean really petty and seeing 'a fly in the ointment' where non exists. For instance, he seems to always be asking about smells in the environment that no one else can detect, not even the sensors.

    In the past, I have known ENTPs who defy authority and then give into to it often under pressure but this guy seems to be living out his ISFJ shadow, like you see all these ISFJs traits in him but they are perverted in a really bad way.
    You don't understand. I don't use MBTI to explain or excuse his behavior. Because, MBTI is not designed to describe why someone does something. You have to go to philosophy for that.

    And besides, I don't have to work where you are because you just asked an ENTIRE group of people who don't work where you are. If you need a response that requires that information, you'd be asking your co-workers. right?

    If you really are worried, concerned about him - then you must ask him yourself. MBTI will not tell you anything, and neither would a bunch of anonymous people on the internet.

    MBTI is not a replacement for God. They are both sources for non-answers.
    "People often say that this or that person has not yet found himself. But the self is not something one finds; it is something one creates." - Thomas Szasz

  6. #36
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    Quote Originally Posted by Avatar7 View Post
    I'm afraid this has to do with the context through which various types believe what is taking place...some might have the disposition being right or wrong also is somewhat of a power thing. Others may see it as an emotional risk, it can vary. The thing is, an ENTP might be incorrect. IMO don't expect them go along though, necessarily within the context being made as to them being incorrect.

    They might be likely to see being incorrect as a non sequitur. And could be perfectly happy saying they were incorrect. Especially because..in stating the fact of being incorrect, one is in fact, correct.
    +1 this happens alot

    "just say that you where wrong on X"

    WTF, why is it so importent to them that I am wrong, I don't really care if I am, but when someone says that I'm not gonna admit to anything.

    If we are having a discussion and the other person makes a sensible argument and aren't an ass i will readily admit to being wrong.

  7. #37
    Senior Member Winds of Thor's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Myrtle View Post
    +1 this happens alot

    "just say that you where wrong on X"

    WTF, why is it so importent to them that I am wrong, I don't really care if I am, but when someone says that I'm not gonna admit to anything.

    If we are having a discussion and the other person makes a sensible argument and aren't an ass i will readily admit to being wrong.
    Can't speak for others, while it may be that some could have become jealous? and have chosen to attempt to make an impact?

    Comments from other types, please respond. Maybe we could all learn something here?
    "..And the eight and final rule: If this is your first time at Fight Club, you have to fight."
    'Men are meant to be with women. The rest is perversion and mental illness.'

  8. #38
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    Quote Originally Posted by Avatar7 View Post
    Can't speak for others, while it may be that some could have become jealous? and have chosen to attempt to make an impact.

    Comments from other types, please respond. Maybe we could all learn something .
    Not a specific type thing, or maybe, I dont get this very often from N types, or SP types, its mostly SJ types I guess. not sure thou...

    Yeah I think alot of time its insecurities from the other person manifesting itself in a "I have to be right" type of way. However Im sure I come of as a person that "wants to have all the right answers" and sometimes it might not seem to others that I am open to suggestions and that the discussion for me is a way of checking my information.

    They get the feeling that I need to be taken down a peg and try to make an impact missing the whole point of a discussion. I want the discussion to be a positive intersection between people exploring information and theories. But if someone is aggressive towards me I usually respond in kind and i have to keep myself from using the meaner tools in my arsenal cause my main objective isen't a personal attack but it seems theirs are alot of the time.

  9. #39
    Shaman BlackCat's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by yenom View Post
    Thats not a entp problem. Thats a problem of enneagram 6 and enneagram 3.

    I never suck up to authority unless it serves some purpose.
    Yes. What does this have to do with NeTi?
    () 9w8-3w4-7w6 tritype.

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