[ENTP] ENTP's Natural Trolls?

[WALMART]

Title.

Lately I've been making a bit of people upset about the jokes I make. They're just so funny to me I can't help but make them. It's like I see something, my mind processes it and sends it directly to my mouth, no buffer.

I have been experiencing a decent amount of cognative dissonance about the subject. Reaffirmation that I am not a bad person, just annoying, would be nice.

 

[CzeCze]

Title.[/title]

In answer to your question YES. Not all ENTPs. But damn if your type doesnt breed those suckers (trolls) best.

Lately I've been making a bit of people upset about the jokes I make. They're just so funny to me I can't help but make them. It's like I see something, my mind processes it and sends it directly to my mouth, no buffer.

How old are you? I'm guessing teens, no older than 25?

Can you give an example?

I have been experiencing a decent amount of cognative dissonance about the subject. Reaffirmation that I am not a bad person, just annoying, would be nice.

Haha, nice distinction. So ENTP of you I think a lot of people will tell you that you are not a bad person but more serious than just being annoying is hurting other peoples feelings, pissing them off, or making them feel disrespected. Also social faux pas.

It pays to think for a moment before speaking and asking yourself how your comment will be received. Learn social context and to read other people and situations. Learn boundaries. If you choose to purposely break those boundaries later then that's one thing, but going through life unaware of boundaries and then blurting out whatever you think is funny knowing it usually ticks people off - well, you might as well stop bathing now because that's the kind of effect you will have on people.

This isn't just a step towards being a better person but it is also social insurance. Unless you want to be a pariah for the rest of your life or be confined to internet forums.

You can also channel your humor in other ways so you don't feel a need to direct indiscriminately at everyone you come across. Well timed, well calculated jokes are appreciated much more than a bb gun spray of random thoughts.

But chin up! The fact you care that you might be a troll is a good sign you are not the worst kind that live under bridges. :Alttongue:

Also, welcome the forum.

PS Don't troll us pwease! Kidding! look forward to more of your posts, did you start a welcome/intro thread already?

 

[Myrtle]

Yeah this happens alot when you're Ne runs wild without sufficient supervision of Fe. Try reading facial expressions, body language, tone, clothes etc. Its not only good for not coming of as an asshole it gives you loads of information about people thru Ne>Ti (maybe its an Sx function) you can get access to info that you never had an idea was freely available. Its really cool

 

[WALMART]

In answer to your question YES. Not all ENTPs. But damn if your type doesnt breed those suckers (trolls) best.



How old are you? I'm guessing teens, no older than 25?

Can you give an example?

I'm 23. So it's a phase?



The other day my cousin (aspiring rapper that lives with is dad) posted "it's either a million bucks or what I've got now, i ain't gonna settle for no pussy ass career", to which I responded, "your wife and kids might have something to say about that someday, lol." He got pretty upset (four sentence response) and deleted the whole post later. That particular event is still funny and truthful to me, but there are other comments I make that are simply too straightforward. Funny as shit, but too straightforward.

I know social boundary; I 'see' people well. I am typically well liked in my school/work environments. I suppose I trust my overall competence to be strong enough to make people not hate me. My sister and her friend (both INFP) are constant sources of my attacks. They call me an asshole pretty frequently, which is fair. To be fairer, they're both vegans that believe raising a child gender neutral is the key to happiness.

Haha, nice distinction. So ENTP of you I think a lot of people will tell you that you are not a bad person but more serious than just being annoying is hurting other peoples feelings, pissing them off, or making them feel disrespected. Also social faux pas.

It pays to think for a moment before speaking and asking yourself how your comment will be received. Learn social context and to read other people and situations. Learn boundaries. If you choose to purposely break those boundaries later then that's one thing, but going through life unaware of boundaries and then blurting out whatever you think is funny knowing it usually ticks people off - well, you might as well stop bathing now because that's the kind of effect you will have on people.

This isn't just a step towards being a better person but it is also social insurance. Unless you want to be a pariah for the rest of your life or be confined to internet forums.

You can also channel your humor in other ways so you don't feel a need to direct indiscriminately at everyone you come across. Well timed, well calculated jokes are appreciated much more than a bb gun spray of random thoughts.

I've thought about stand up. Just last night I delivered a brief soliloquy I wished immediately after I'd write down. But even then, I would be condensing every hurtful objective statement I make into a five minute routine lol.

But chin up! The fact you care that you might be a troll is a good sign you are not the worst kind that live under bridges. :Alttongue:

Also, welcome the forum.

PS Don't troll us pwease! Kidding! look forward to more of your posts, did you start a welcome/intro thread already?

No I haven't, but I'm not very good at "about me's", so it may take a while

 

[CzeCze]

I'm 23. So it's a phase?[/hopefully]

Hopefully

It will depend on how much you work on yourself and grow basically. and sure everyone has a growing pains or "rough around the edges" stage especially through your early 20s. one extreme exsmple: I had an ENTP friend in highschool who I realized was rough around the edges, could be mean, and had anger management issues (screwming, kicking tires, etc.) By the time I was 20 I realized I could not stand her nor did AI want that kind ofme energy in my life so I lost her number. I met her again years later and she had mellowed out a lot.

You'll also notice on the forum there is a distinct difference in vibe and posting style between the younger ENTPs and older ENTPs. I think this is more pronounced in doods. You're in good company here, though, don't worry.

The other day my cousin (aspiring rapper that lives with is dad) posted "it's either a million bucks or what I've got now, i ain't gonna settle for no pussy ass career", to which I responded, "your wife and kids might have something to say about that someday, lol." He got pretty upset (four sentence response) and deleted the whole post later. That particular event is still funny and truthful to me, but there are other comments I make that are simply too straightforward. Funny as shit, but too straightforward.[\quote]

Ah. Okay, that's a pointed observation. Fine line between Observational humor and cutting sarcasm. You need to learn context and determine response before letting those fly. If you thought your cousin was basically being juvenile and not thinking things through and you wanted to give him a "dose of reality" you did your job. Your cousin obviously thought you were unsupportive and just clowning him for a one liner. So in the end you have to wonder what you accomplished. If that was your intent (to tick him off or you are discouraging him from rap no matter what and are willing to take bumps to your friendship) then mission accomplished. Otherwise, you end up the jerk going, "What, it was funny?! "

personally, I think the comment is mild itself (not I inherently cutting) is humorous but not funny (wait, does he actually have kids and a wife??) especially for someone who wants to make it in a very tough field, but given the context you are supposed to be his family and friend and hes making a heartfelt declaration that hou mocked, I think that's why he's upset. Does that make senses?

I know social boundary; I 'see' people well. I am typically well liked in my school/work environments. I suppose I trust my overall competence to be strong enough to make people not hate me.[\quote]

You know whats funny is almost all ENTPs I know (as well as trolls, pushy salesmen, etc.) say thi regardless of how true it is? :alltongue: I think sometimes the statement is true, sometimes delusional, mostly a mix. Ne primary helps a lot with this I think. Your Fe probably makes you default personable when you essentially are on neutral and not actively trying to mock someone.

I actually do believe you are mostly well liked and arent going around 24/7 spouting 1 lines. Confidence and chutzpah go a long way in the real world to earning social respect. I wonder if you couple that though with,"these people are so easily impressed! I got them to like me! Hwahwahahwa!" I swear my ENTP college aged cousin says almost exactly that. He is also legit pretty well liked by his peers but I also think he's a smart ass and aggravating as hell and tell him so often.

think My sister and her friend (both INFP) are constant sources of my attacks. They call me an asshole pretty frequently, which is fair. To be fairer, they're both vegans that believe raising a child gender neutral is the key to happiness.[\quote]

:horor:

Omg, you like picking on NFPs especially? IS THIS STUFF BIOLOGICAL WITH MBT OR SOMETHIGN?!?!

that a joke. It's kinda a well established joke that NTPs and NFPs have a mongoose and snake relationship.

I feel bad for your sister,is she older than you? I bet you don't even give her any respect for being older. I'm gone have to take her side on this. Does she have kids and youre criticizing how she's raising them without even having kids yourself?

I've thought about stand up. Just last night I delivered a brief soliloquy I wished immediately after I'd write down. But even then, I would be condensing every hurtful objective statement I make into a five minute routine lol.

DO IT. Humor, when directed at an no one in particular, leeches a lot of the hurtful sting of comments. Riff on hippie parenting and aspiring rappers living with their parents on stage to your hearts content and give your real life relationships with people a break. You may find people on stage are very appreciative of your brand of humor. Directing barbed comments at specific people to their face = problem time.

Try out improv (almost every city has one) and do amateur night at stand up venues. This will sharpen your awareness of humor and boundaries and I think also teach you humility/empathy (no comic lasts without bombing and getting heckled)

Good luck!

No I haven't, but I'm not very good at "about me's", so it may take a while

Ha! I swear Ive heard this exact same comment from other ENTPs ie "I don't like talking a out myself"(I just like talking about other people? HA)

But that's what we're essentially here to do on the form so jump right in

 

[WALMART]

Yes, he has a wife and kids and works as a telemarketer.

My sister is younger than me and has no kids.


Posting from my phone, will elaborate later

 

[UniqueMixture]

Just channeit in a more lighthearted way that makes fun of the "differences" between you and the other. If you do it in a way that is perceived as disrespectful regardless of your actual intent, you'll get flak for it. In that case either build a tougher skin and let the person gradually "get it" over time or apoligize and don't repeat that sort of thibg with that person in the future. Over time you'll gradually attract the people who "get it."

 

[WALMART]

I would like to point out I rarely offend people. This is only in the past two weeks or so that this has been happening.

 

[WALMART]

I'm 23. So it's a phase?[/hopefully]

Hopefully

It will depend on how much you work on yourself and grow basically. and sure everyone has a growing pains or "rough around the edges" stage especially through your early 20s. one extreme exsmple: I had an ENTP friend in highschool who I realized was rough around the edges, could be mean, and had anger management issues (screwming, kicking tires, etc.) By the time I was 20 I realized I could not stand her nor did AI want that kind ofme energy in my life so I lost her number. I met her again years later and she had mellowed out a lot.

You'll also notice on the forum there is a distinct difference in vibe and posting style between the younger ENTPs and older ENTPs. I think this is more pronounced in doods. You're in good company here, though, don't worry.

The other day my cousin (aspiring rapper that lives with is dad) posted "it's either a million bucks or what I've got now, i ain't gonna settle for no pussy ass career", to which I responded, "your wife and kids might have something to say about that someday, lol." He got pretty upset (four sentence response) and deleted the whole post later. That particular event is still funny and truthful to me, but there are other comments I make that are simply too straightforward. Funny as shit, but too straightforward.[\quote]

Ah. Okay, that's a pointed observation. Fine line between Observational humor and cutting sarcasm. You need to learn context and determine response before letting those fly. If you thought your cousin was basically being juvenile and not thinking things through and you wanted to give him a "dose of reality" you did your job. Your cousin obviously thought you were unsupportive and just clowning him for a one liner. So in the end you have to wonder what you accomplished. If that was your intent (to tick him off or you are discouraging him from rap no matter what and are willing to take bumps to your friendship) then mission accomplished. Otherwise, you end up the jerk going, "What, it was funny?! "

personally, I think the comment is mild itself (not I inherently cutting) is humorous but not funny (wait, does he actually have kids and a wife??) especially for someone who wants to make it in a very tough field, but given the context you are supposed to be his family and friend and hes making a heartfelt declaration that hou mocked, I think that's why he's upset. Does that make senses?

Yes, it makes sense. I don't know what I was thinking, except at the time I thought it was funny. But at the same time... the dude needs to grow up. He quit an awesome union construction job because he didn't like the rigidity, which is understandable, but what kind of a career is telemarketing? It was the deliberate disregard of future security that got me to talkin'. Idk. Tough stuff.

I know social boundary; I 'see' people well. I am typically well liked in my school/work environments. I suppose I trust my overall competence to be strong enough to make people not hate me.[\quote]

You know whats funny is almost all ENTPs I know (as well as trolls, pushy salesmen, etc.) say thi regardless of how true it is? :alltongue: I think sometimes the statement is true, sometimes delusional, mostly a mix. Ne primary helps a lot with this I think. Your Fe probably makes you default personable when you essentially are on neutral and not actively trying to mock someone.

I actually do believe you are mostly well liked and arent going around 24/7 spouting 1 lines. Confidence and chutzpah go a long way in the real world to earning social respect. I wonder if you couple that though with,"these people are so easily impressed! I got them to like me! Hwahwahahwa!" I swear my ENTP college aged cousin says almost exactly that. He is also legit pretty well liked by his peers but I also think he's a smart ass and aggravating as hell and tell him so often.

I really don't. I know my time and place. I once held a position of power, I GM'd a Uhaul. I always felt like a chinese kung fu master in the manner I'd impart my knowledge. The instruction I gave was to the point and occasionally jagged, but they taught lessons.

An example: I was recently promoted to the store and I told an employee to go to the bank and get change. He's worked for Uhaul two years and we had performed this task once together, but he asked the second time what change he should get. Instead of helping him, I told him he was a big boy and could figure it out on his own. He didn't get upset, but he was put off. But guess what? We got the change, I was able to move on to a next task and he grew a layer of independence.

When I quit I had my employees literally up in arms about me staying. My superior wanted to promote me to a field manager. The CEO of Uhaul had once written the company president of san antonio specifically to commend me on how I present myself. My customer reviews were always the best in the district at EOM meetings. My P&L sheet was leaps and bounds better than what any previous GM had put out. And everyone genuinely liked me as a person (as far as I know =P)

think My sister and her friend (both INFP) are constant sources of my attacks. They call me an asshole pretty frequently, which is fair. To be fairer, they're both vegans that believe raising a child gender neutral is the key to happiness.[\quote]

:horor:

Omg, you like picking on NFPs especially? IS THIS STUFF BIOLOGICAL WITH MBT OR SOMETHIGN?!?!

that a joke. It's kinda a well established joke that NTPs and NFPs have a mongoose and snake relationship.

I feel bad for your sister,is she older than you? I bet you don't even give her any respect for being older. I'm gone have to take her side on this. Does she have kids and youre criticizing how she's raising them without even having kids yourself?




DO IT. Humor, when directed at an no one in particular, leeches a lot of the hurtful sting of comments. Riff on hippie parenting and aspiring rappers living with their parents on stage to your hearts content and give your real life relationships with people a break. You may find people on stage are very appreciative of your brand of humor. Directing barbed comments at specific people to their face = problem time.

Try out improv (almost every city has one) and do amateur night at stand up venues. This will sharpen your awareness of humor and boundaries and I think also teach you humility/empathy (no comic lasts without bombing and getting heckled)

Good luck!




Ha! I swear Ive heard this exact same comment from other ENTPs ie "I don't like talking a out myself"(I just like talking about other people? HA)

But that's what we're essentially here to do on the form so jump right in

Its not so much that we (I?) don't like talking about ourselves, it's just that it's incredibly difficult. My about me's always end up being some weird caricature of things I might resemble. I reckon I'd rather strike up a conversation and let it become self evident than to tell someone what they should expect of me.








Also, who said I didn't have kids?

(I don't, lol)

 

[UniqueMixture]

I would like to point out I rarely offend people. This is only in the past two weeks or so that this has been happening.

On the forum or IRL? forumers tend to... not be reflective of the general population lol

 

[skylights]

Well, clearly you're not a bad person if you're concerned about this

However, IME, most NTPs could use to do a bit of reflecting on how what you say is generally meant to be taken impersonally, and when applied at a deep, personal level, can be very hurtful. I think because you guys are so low in the Fi department, you don't usually consider the implications of what you're saying in terms of application to the internal value of a person. (Which might be part of why your INFP sister and her friend are particularly vulnerable to this, since they process primarily in Fi!) I say this because I have multiple NTPs in the family, and as such have received quite a dose of NTPness!

But at the same time... the dude needs to grow up. He quit an awesome union construction job because he didn't like the rigidity, which is understandable, but what kind of a career is telemarketing? It was the deliberate disregard of future security that got me to talkin'. Idk. Tough stuff.

My little brother does this, too. He has a legitimate concern because he feels like someone isn't living up to their potential, or is otherwise doing something that is just truly, blatantly stupid, but instead of voicing that plainly, he'll make cutting, sarcastic remarks about it. I think he feels like the truth of his remarks is what makes them okay to say, but it ends up being doubly harmful because not only is the comment demotivating for its target, but it also comes off as an attack, which undermines the perceived validity of the statement. In other words, why would I want to listen to someone who's just attacking me and making me feel bad? That kind of cutting remark just makes me want to ignore him and the issue altogether. It might initially have been meant just for fun or maybe to help, but it backfires completely.

As for your example specifically - the other thing that bothers me on a Fi level, is who are you to judge whether or not he is pursuing a worthwhile career? Have you lived his experiences, thought his thoughts, felt his feelings, and fully understood why he made this choice? It's sort of an affront to his worth in terms of being able to choose appropriately for himself. Maybe he has taken future security into account. I can't really understand desiring to go into telemarketing either, but at the same time, I think it's good that he left a job that was taking away from his quality of life. You can't sustain yourself on something you hate, and you certainly can't sustain a family that way. Your comment is pretty insulting to him on a couple different levels, really.

An example: I was recently promoted to the store and I told an employee to go to the bank and get change. He's worked for Uhaul two years and we had performed this task once together, but he asked the second time what change he should get. Instead of helping him, I told him he was a big boy and could figure it out on his own. He didn't get upset, but he was put off. But guess what? We got the change, I was able to move on to a next task and he grew a layer of independence.

I know this is a "good" example, but it's good material to work with in terms of the points I'm trying to make about attending to personal value communication anyway. I think it's great in a managerial sense to make people figure stuff out on their own, but I think it's also important that when you're going about this, you give them overt personal support. Implicit in your exchange is that you trust him to succeed, but it's not explicit, which is probably what was off-putting (that, and the "big boy" wording, which has that sarcastic tone that's rather annoying). Saying something like "I trust you to be able to figure that out" or "I'm giving you full responsibility to decide that" would demonstrate personal support and still allow for that learning to take place.

My overall point being that you're not a bad person, but you're probably inadvertently hurting people and you may even be stunting their success by demotivating them. You can probably cut down on this by working on filtering what you say (silently count to 5 before responding... lol...), thinking about if what you're going to say is going to be hurtful on a personal level, and, if you do make a nasty remark and seem to have upset someone, following it up by talking forthrightly and supportively about the subject.

 

[WALMART]

Well, clearly you're not a bad person if you're concerned about this

However, IME, most NTPs could use to do a bit of reflecting on how what you say is generally meant to be taken impersonally, and when applied at a deep, personal level, can be very hurtful. I think because you guys are so low in the Fi department, you don't usually consider the implications of what you're saying in terms of application to the internal value of a person. (Which might be part of why your INFP sister and her friend are particularly vulnerable to this, since they process primarily in Fi!) I say this because I have multiple NTPs in the family, and as such have received quite a dose of NTPness!


My little brother does this, too. He has a legitimate concern because he feels like someone isn't living up to their potential, or is otherwise doing something that is just truly, blatantly stupid, but instead of voicing that plainly, he'll make cutting, sarcastic remarks about it. I think he feels like the truth of his remarks is what makes them okay to say, but it ends up being doubly harmful because not only is the comment demotivating for its target, but it also comes off as an attack, which undermines the perceived validity of the statement. In other words, why would I want to listen to someone who's just attacking me and making me feel bad? That kind of cutting remark just makes me want to ignore him and the issue altogether. It might initially have been meant just for fun or maybe to help, but it backfires completely.

As for your example specifically - the other thing that bothers me on a Fi level, is who are you to judge whether or not he is pursuing a worthwhile career? Have you lived his experiences, thought his thoughts, felt his feelings, and fully understood why he made this choice? It's sort of an affront to his worth in terms of being able to choose appropriately for himself. Maybe he has taken future security into account. I can't really understand desiring to go into telemarketing either, but at the same time, I think it's good that he left a job that was taking away from his quality of life. You can't sustain yourself on something you hate, and you certainly can't sustain a family that way. Your comment is pretty insulting to him on a couple different levels, really.

You're right, I'm nobody.

I know this is a "good" example, but it's good material to work with in terms of the points I'm trying to make about attending to personal value communication anyway. I think it's great in a managerial sense to make people figure stuff out on their own, but I think it's also important that when you're going about this, you give them overt personal support. Implicit in your exchange is that you trust him to succeed, but it's not explicit, which is probably what was off-putting (that, and the "big boy" wording, which has that sarcastic tone that's rather annoying). Saying something like "I trust you to be able to figure that out" or "I'm giving you full responsibility to decide that" would demonstrate personal support and still allow for that learning to take place.

I didn't actually say he was a big boy, I used that phrase to convey the situation. 'Cause I did word it coyly. Uhaul is a frustrating job and I was frequently frustrated =/ lol.

My overall point being that you're not a bad person, but you're probably inadvertently hurting people and you may even be stunting their success by demotivating them. You can probably cut down on this by working on filtering what you say (silently count to 5 before responding... lol...), thinking about if what you're going to say is going to be hurtful on a personal level, and, if you do make a nasty remark and seem to have upset someone, following it up by talking forthrightly and supportively about the subject.

Sooo muchhhh workkkkkk.


But seriously, so much work. It'll be hard for me. Through perseverance and a keen eye I will prevail!