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  1. #1
    Senior Member The Great One's Avatar
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    Default ENTP + moral dilemmas

    Okay, so I'm trying to figure myself out lately. Suddenly everything makes no sense to me, and I'm really trying to make sense of it all. My moral values are very tricky and they change with the wind. I seem to be an ENTP personality type, but I am much more moral than most ENTP types. However, when I break a moral value I don't feel a sense of conviction, but more of a sense of fear.

    I was brought up in a ridiculously religious Christian family, and they installed in me very heavy "Christian morals". I was ridiculously religious as a child, but I'm not really that really that religious now. I mean, I keep the religion, but I wouldn't call myself a "Jesus Freak" or anything like that by any means.

    Anyway, my parents really seemed to use the mental, "stick" method in order to control me as a child and I really didn't realize it. Whenever I would do something that they deemed bad, they would say something to the affect of "God will severely punish you for this" or some bullshit like that. Anyway, I believe myself to have a very heavy enneagram 6 fixture and may very possibly be a core 6. So when they said this it really messed me up, because my mind naturally thinks of like 1000 different ways that God, Karma, or whatever could punish me for my wrong doings.

    This was a very big problem for me, because it really affected my life in every situation. I would constantly be in situations where I had to "so called" sin, but others would give me reassurance that I was "sinning" for good reason. In fact if I didn't get other's reassurance then I would believe that I would somehow be "punished" for my wrongdoings. For example, I would be in sales and I would lie to people all day long to sell products. Now when I had others around me to reassure me that lying wasn't really bad to sell the products because it really wasn't hurting anyone, then I felt fine with it. I just said to myself, "I lie in order to sell, and I sell in order to survive. The job market is tough, and I am doing this to survive. So therefore, I am doing nothing wrong."

    The thing is though, that I seem to need others around me to dictate my moral values. I really don't like moral values to tell the truth, and would prefer to just do what I think each situation calls for. In fact, many times I think that one has to do what society would consider bad, in order to do good in the long run. My question is though, what is wrong with me? Is this just a case of me needing to develop my Ti and I am letting Fe dictate my moral values? Also, is there maybe some Si poking it's way through? Could this be a 6 thing as well? What the hell is wrong with me?

    @Nerd Girl and @Elfboy you may want to check out this thread as well.

  2. #2
    Junior Member Eljeffeboss's Avatar
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    I think that all your life you've had external entities dictate your morality for you without giving you enough of a reasonable justification for them. As an NT you need to be able to justify your beliefs to yourself and if you can't then you're obviously going to have some trouble sticking to that belief (like you said, you're values "change like the wind"). What you need to do is stop looking externally for moral guidance and ask yourself what you really think is right and what you think is wrong. Personally, I think you could benefit from checking out virtue ethics because that seems pretty in line with what you want for doing what the situation calls for.

  3. #3
    Senior Member The Great One's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Eljeffeboss View Post
    I think that all your life you've had external entities dictate your morality for you without giving you enough of a reasonable justification for them. As an NT you need to be able to justify your beliefs to yourself and if you can't then you're obviously going to have some trouble sticking to that belief (like you said, you're values "change like the wind"). What you need to do is stop looking externally for moral guidance and ask yourself what you really think is right and what you think is wrong. Personally, I think you could benefit from checking out virtue ethics because that seems pretty in line with what you want for doing what the situation calls for.
    I appreciate this post. You don't think that I could possibly be an Fi user (ENFP) in disguise do you?

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    Junior Member Eljeffeboss's Avatar
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    It's definitely a possibility. What do you think?

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    Senior Member The Great One's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Eljeffeboss View Post
    It's definitely a possibility. What do you think?
    I would have to go more with an ENTP typing for a number of reasons. First, most Fi user's moral values are set in stone, and do not change. Next, Fi users make their own moral values based on how they feel about things, and the how the general populace feels about something has no baring on their morals (again it's all about how they feel about something). Finally, Fi moral values are not situational and Fi users generally won't find it acceptable to break a moral value based on a situation. In fact, if Fi users feel that they have broken a moral value the majority of them will actually go back and re-analyze ways that they could avoid that situation in the future and not break one of their moral values again.

    I am not like this. My moral values tend to never be constant, they come from an external source, and they tend to often be flexible based on different situations. This is much more a Ti<Fe thing.

    @Doctorjuice you may want to check out this thread as well

  6. #6
    Senior Member Doctorjuice's Avatar
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    @The Great One

    I read the OP and your last post. I don't see anything wrong with you at all, you're just a very moral person. I think you have a misconception about ENTPs not being moral or something. They certainly can be. I would say that an ENTP is more likely to put morals aside than an ENFP but that doesn't mean that some ENTPs can't be extremely moral.

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    Senior Member The Great One's Avatar
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    @Doctorjuice

    So what the hell is wrong with me then?

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    Senior Member Doctorjuice's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by The Great One View Post
    @Doctorjuice

    So what the hell is wrong with me then?
    Nothing, as far as I can tell...

    Do you feel something is?

  9. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by Doctorjuice View Post
    Nothing, as far as I can tell...

    Do you feel something is?
    I want to do away with moral values and go with logic on several situations but my belief systems that were ingrained in me since I was a child keep me from doing so.

  10. #10
    Junior Member Eljeffeboss's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by The Great One View Post
    I want to do away with moral values and go with logic on several situations but my belief systems that were ingrained in me since I was a child keep me from doing so.
    Then maybe those belief systems are the problem. Have you ever thought about whether you agree with them?

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