[MBTI General] Whats the explanation for P/J shift?

[martin87]

I noticed that I tend to swing between P and J. I normally see myself as and INTP, the description fits me very nicely, but when I feel good emotionally I tend to swing into the J. Especially so when it comes to formal business situations. I love job interviews - I love the feeling of being the center of attention, but only when a single other person is involved and when that person is asking questions that I can come up with long detailed answers to. I have taken several different tests on several occasions and 3 out of 4 times I'd get intp, otherwise intj. It's not like I'm all going "omg i'm intj I don't want to be intj". I just wander if there is a theoretical explanation for this.

 

[Kiddo]

People can develop their other functions.

I used to be a very rigid J. Then I burned out. Now half the time I test as a P.

Perhaps in your case, you have learned to extrovert your thinking.

 

[Totenkindly]

The basic answer is that you still have a preference of one or the other, but your behavior -- as with anyone -- is context-based.

(Personal example: I can seem pretty J in some situations, and inflexible when someone changes my plans at the last minute, and I heavily manage risk... but if you know me IRL at all, you know I'm not even close to a J. I hate closure in decision-making and have trouble keeping it, it's agonizing for me to keep with a decision and not flex.)

And as mentioned elsewhere, in terms of MBTI theory at least (regardless of how "actual" it is), INTJ and INTP are completely different. They use different functions. Changing your J/P means you change EVERYTHING. Which doesn't happen, you'd be a schizo according to the theory.

INTJ = Ni + Te + Fi + Se
INTP = Ti + Ne + Si + Fe

See? (ask more questions if you need to)

 

[martin87]

The descriptions of intp and intj seem quite similar to me, except that intj is far more organized.

 

[Totenkindly]

The descriptions of intp and intj seem quite similar to me, except that intj is far more organized.

Well, they're not the same at all -- they just tend to both be intellectual and perceptive, but in different areas.

INTJs operate off Ni, and they implement their ideas in the external environment. Truth is more "arbitrary" for them, they don't use their logic to determine truth as much as they use it to fulfill their personal vision.

INTPs are driven by the inner Ti logic function and implementing their ideas is secondary. Truth is essential, they want something to make sense in terms of the essence of things -- world principles. It doesn't matter whether it can be implemented, if it's wrong, it's wrong.

They can get into LOTS of fights because they both have different goals and ways to approach a particular situation. INTJs can get very rankled if the INTP criticizes their ideas without contributing to implementation, and INTPs get angry that the INTJ is not seeing "reality." INTJs also want to control a situation (typically), INTPs avoid asserting control much of the time ... so both have contrasting working styles that result in conflict if they are not careful.

But this has been covered in many many places elsewhere.

 

[martin87]

I guess I'm more of an INTJ then . I do tend to worry more about implementation rather than finding the best solution. I'm a software engineer btw. You'd find me more often say "Let's get this release done and fix bugs later" rather than "We better delay our release date so we can have extra time to improve our software". Though it is important for me to find the best solution after all, but I feel that it's a secondary goal - something I'd spend time thinking about while taking a walk or drinking coffee just because I have nothing better to think about. I prefer to get things done.

I usually get at most 1-5% of the P. I even managed to end up as ISTJ once, but I guess it was just the test being crappy and misleading .

 

[Athenian200]

I guess I'm more of an INTJ then . I do tend to worry more about implementation rather than finding the best solution. I'm a software engineer btw. You'd find me more often say "Let's get this release done and fix bugs later" rather than "We better delay our release date so we can have extra time to improve our software". Though it is important for me to find the best solution after all, but I feel that it's a secondary goal - something I'd spend time thinking about while taking a walk or drinking coffee just because I have nothing better to think about. I prefer to get things done.

Hmm... I'm an INFJ. I'd be more likely to say, "Let's hire some temporary developers, put everyone on overtime, and make everyone crunch as much as possible so that we can get the software released with as few bugs as possible."

 

[martin87]

Hmm... I'm an INFJ. I'd be more likely to say, "Let's hire some temporary developers, put everyone on overtime, and make everyone crunch as much as possible so that we can get the software released with as few bugs as possible."

Well that's a good solution too.. if you have the resources

 

[Randomnity]

ISTPs can look like INTPs (dom Ti, etc) in some situations and INTJs (tertiary Ni, shared interaction style) in others, for the record.

Just cause, you know, I like giving (potential) Ps yet another choice to look at.

 

[Seanan]

ISTPs can look like INTPs (dom Ti, etc) in some situations and INTJs (tertiary Ni, shared interaction style) in others, for the record.

Just cause, you know, I like giving (potential) Ps yet another choice to look at.

UGH?! what situations? I can't even imagine that.

 

[Randomnity]

UGH?! what situations? I can't even imagine that.

Uh...I'm not sure what the "ugh" is for so I'll just pretend it's not there...

I don't have time for an exhaustive list but here are some examples off the top of my head:

-ISTPs often desire their surroundings to be organized for most efficient use, as do INTJs.

-ISTPs prefer to know what they're getting into and make a rough plan for how to proceed, rather than improvising as an INTP might.

-ISTPs are generally very noncontrolling and laissez faire when managing others, as are INTPs.

-ISTPs will tend to watch a situation for a while before taking action, as will an INTP.

-ISTPs will usually go for the most practical and efficient solution to a problem, like an INTJ might, rather than holding out for the perfect solution. (this one may depend on the INTJ, I'm not sure)

Okay, this is taking too much time, I'm not good at inventing scenarios, and I can't guarantee how broadly these apply. I can only say that they're true in my experience. Basically I can relate to a lot of things in both the INTP and INTJ profiles, and to the INTPs/INTJs I know. Far more to INTJs, though. I'm heard similar experiences from other ISTPs. Without a more specific question there isn't much more I can say.

 

[Randomnity]

You're right, now that you mention it I do get off on grammatical accuracy. It gives me a buzz every time. I could sit at home reading the dictionary all day long, fascinating stuff.


....


I'm so glad I have clever intuitives around to tell me what I enjoy. Thanks so much.

 

[MerkW]

The big giveaway to me, is when they are into pedantic issues like grammatical accuracy and so forth, no strong intuitive is going to get a buzz out of that... hence, its a clear signal to me.

Eh...no.

I am very, very irritated by grammatical error, and I tend to nitpick on minute details. I assure you that I am an N. Such has nothing to do with N vs. S. I simply hate imperfection.