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  1. #141

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    Quote Originally Posted by Grungemouse View Post
    Depends what you mean by "work bully"? I guess an unhealthy E-TJ fits that well, if you're talking about excessive micro-managing. Otherwise, any type has the potential to bully in the workplace. ESTPs can be seen as too blunt, the aloofness of the INTP can me misinterpreted as ignoring, etc.

    I dunno, personally. A lot of NTs have stated SJs are the bane of their existance, so to speak. I honestly need an SJ in my life to keep me grounded, organised and telling me when my zipper is undone. My mum is an ESTJ, so just as well.
    Too blunt. I'm guessing ESTP. I'm the man! That sort of shit.

  2. #142
    Freshman Member simulatedworld's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by wolfy View Post
    Which one is the work bully, all ego type again?
    Any ExTx can be guilty of this, although I will say that with the caveat that the ENTP is the least likely of these four (ENTP, ENTJ, ESTP, ESTJ) to cause problems at work if you don't do anything to provoke him.

    I actually have unique experience with this particular type combination--until recently I worked at a pizza store where the general manager was ISTJ, and as such would not often get too involved with his employees as long as sales figures stayed solid and proper business procedures were being followed. He tended to leave most of the actual people management to his two assistant managers, who were, you guessed it: ESTP and ESTJ.

    ESTPs are often too blunt, yes; they are the ultimate straight-shooter realist types. But if someone else who's in charge seems reasonably competent and isn't doing anything that immediately conflicts with the ESTP's present work in his physical environment, things usually go ok.

    Notice that with the ESTP it's more about, "Are you bothering me and my work?" than "Are you doing something you shouldn't be doing?" The latter attitude is much more J; the key difference between ESTP and ESTJ here is that the ESTJ is driven by fierce internal voices of shoulds and oughts, and doesn't usually see the big picture well enough to determine when enforcement of these standard procedures is not useful.

    The ESTP doesn't really give a shit about any of that; his singular focus (and lack of big picture conceptualizing) is much more directed toward himself and his immediate, tangible environment--are you bothering ME, RIGHT NOW? The ESTP will be among the first to tell you, not out of a desire to control you, but simply out of tactlessness and a bent for following impulses, that you're doing something that bothers him/hinders his work. As long as it doesn't do either of those things, though, he couldn't give a fuck less if you're following standard procedure or not.

    As for the ENTs...ENTP is generally light-hearted and charming in the work place as long as he is allowed a certain amount of freedom of choice. He strongly resents excessive control from middle management, and needs a certain amount of autonomy in his work-based decisions to avoid a total blowup with ESTJ supervisors (which certainly happened to me a few times at this pizza store.) He likes to suggest new ideas for how to run the business, and the ESTJ supervisor will often take these as pointed insults to her competence. ("We have a perfectly good method for doing this task; why would anyone suggest another one if not to imply that my method is wrong??") Worse yet, the ENTP gets annoyed when his suggestions are ignored, not because he desires to lead or control the direction of the company, but because he hates it when "stupid tradition" takes precedence and feels that his dominant Ne is being actively suppressed. He must generate ideas and possibilities, as this is his strongest suit, and resents it when they are ignored.

    The store had one ENTJ employee as well. He was much older than anyone else in the store (probably 55-60) and had many years of management and sales experience, but was not in a leadership position at all in this particular company. Naturally, this led to a lot of conflict with the younger, female ESTJ supervisor about how best to structure our strategical business plans; he wanted to rewrite the plans for improved efficiency and she wanted to stick to the standard procedure, and moreover was personally insulted and upset when he continued to try to force his own non-standard strategical ideas. He was just doing what ENTJs do best--organizing others into their own creative, strategic plans--but she took it as a deliberate insult to her authority.

    Needless to say, nobody at that store ever particularly liked the ESTJ manager. She shared an apartment with an INTP employee of the same store, and to this day I'll never figure out how the INTP was able to stand living/working with her on a daily basis. Go figure.

  3. #143
    now! in shell form INA's Avatar
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    Maybe the INTP was cool. I don't find that most STJs rub me the wrong way - not nearly as much as some NFs.
    for the much-maligned xSTJs. Someone s you, honeys.

    I dunno, personally. A lot of NTs have stated SJs are the bane of their existance, so to speak. I honestly need an SJ in my life to keep me grounded, organised and telling me when my zipper is undone. My mum is an ESTJ, so just as well. My ISFJ and ISTJ friends were practically my parents at school; "Emma, you left your iPod on the train!"
    Exactly!
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  4. #144
    Senior Member norepinephrine's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by InaF3157 View Post
    Maybe the INTP was cool.
    Wait a sec, aren't all INTPs cool? I thought that was a given.

  5. #145
    now! in shell form INA's Avatar
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    Aw hell no. I, for one, am not.
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  6. #146
    Widdles in your cream.
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    Quote Originally Posted by InaF3157 View Post
    Maybe the INTP was cool. I don't find that most STJs rub me the wrong way - not nearly as much as some NFs.
    for the much-maligned xSTJs. Someone s you, honeys.

    I'm very much the same. There's a forum I go on which is heavily NF-populated, so much so they call it an "online community". They're surprisingly hierarchial, but annoyingly so because it's based on idealism and harmony. Debates are instructed to "be handled over PM" because it is misconstrued as conflict, and God forbid that takes place in their little home-way-from-home!

    There's also a "humour barrier". Dead-pan humour is misinterpreted as genuine sexism or racism. Fortunately the NT population is steadily creeping upwards. The place just stinks of compassion, which makes a Ti-junky like me shrivel away in disdain.
    Um, yeah.

  7. #147
    now! in shell form INA's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Grungemouse View Post
    There's also a "humour barrier". Dead-pan humour is misinterpreted as genuine sexism or racism. Fortunately the NT population is steadily creeping upwards.
    *shudder*
    yeah, i can think of some awkward moments online and IRL when I made such a deadpan joke only to be taken seriously and tagged a horrible, horrible person.
    i mean, not saying the label is wrong , but don't base it on obviously non-serious comments when we're just 'avin a laff.
    hoarding time and space
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  8. #148
    Member brilliantwomble's Avatar
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    ESFJ closely followed by ESTJ. Both of them are rather irritating especially when they are choleric. Now for the why part. ESFJ-- because the ones I've met are both emotional and dogmatic. Bad combo for me since I tend to not be emotional or dogmatic and don't care for it either. ESTJ because I have met plenty who were also dogmatic and rule followers to a tee. To be honest I think I royally irritate both of these types as well so I think the dislike has been mutual, but the ESJ combination has irked me on more than one occasion for being too loud and dogmatic about things they did not seem that important. (And one ESFJ in particular has a habit of talking loudly during films and tv shows I like and never understands what's going on--so will say very loudly "I don't get it. This is stupid," in the middle of whatever it was I was watching. Very annoying.) I just have very little patience with these two types. ESPs tend to be okay.

  9. #149
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    heh, you know what i discovered while reading this thread? I'm never taken a survey of those people who i can't stand... however, for the sake of this thread, when I come across people who just set me off, I'll be sure to ask them their MBTI scores.

    Might be fun to find out... though I'm apt to find a pattern, and feel that we should just round them up, drop them on an island, and air lift them food, and let the survival of the fittest rule apply.... heh

    k, so that was a joke... twisted and dark but funny to me :$

    now ...
    Quote Originally Posted by DigitalMethod
    What I despise is they tend to use their excellent social skills to control others, the whole manipulative factor is just a taboo for me, like using your powers for evil or something along those lines. Of course INTJ might use their powers for evil too... but the whole social manipulation of others just seems down right wrong to me, especially if one is aware of what they are doing.
    What about INTJ's that attempt to use their power for good? I know personally I always find myself hated equally with those who use their gifts for evil....

  10. #150
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    Quote Originally Posted by Grungemouse
    I'm very much the same. There's a forum I go on which is heavily NF-populated, so much so they call it an "online community". They're surprisingly hierarchial, but annoyingly so because it's based on idealism and harmony. Debates are instructed to "be handled over PM" because it is misconstrued as conflict, and God forbid that takes place in their little home-way-from-home!

    There's also a "humour barrier". Dead-pan humour is misinterpreted as genuine sexism or racism. Fortunately the NT population is steadily creeping upwards. The place just stinks of compassion, which makes a Ti-junky like me shrivel away in disdain.
    heh, that was pretty funny and highly accurate!

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