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  1. #111
    Freshman Member simulatedworld's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by IDK123 View Post
    Well, most individuals with extremely expressed traits drive me nuts like strong E, S, F, T,J or P. Out of all of those I can't stand J or P.
    So strong I and N are the only functions that don't bother you?

  2. #112
    Freshman Member simulatedworld's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Athenian200 View Post
    What's interesting is that I attribute much of what you just said about ESTJs to INFPs. From my perspective, INFPs do this all the time, they're just doing it subtly and in such a way that they LOOK empathetic, open-minded and adaptable. I could be wrong, though.




    No, I am actually referring to social, personal interactions, as well as philosophical standpoints. I've found that they have a certain arrogance about the value of their experience, and a tendency to idealize all their feelings in such a way as to subtly imply that certain things are correct and universal for everyone in an ethical sense, that people have an inherent nature that is based on things that, to me, seem arbitrary.
    Hmmm, that IS interesting. I guess you're right that they may possess rather intolerant attitudes about the ethical perfection of others...most of the INFPs I've met have had pretty similar ethical beliefs to mine, so we get along fine.

    I'd think the problem you've just described would, while somewhat applicable to INFP, still be much more applicable to INFJ, would it not? Their natural desire for closure and having things settled would seem to make them more likely to immediately dismiss you as "unethical", or worse yet, "EVIL!"

    INFPs may have some perfectionist attitudes about ethics, but I think INFs struggle more with their OWN ethical perfection than with that of others--that's the Extroverted Feeler's job. INFPs, in my experience, at least have the natural flexibility to listen to your reasoning for your ethical decisions and consider its worth before immediately dismissing you as evil.

  3. #113
    Protocol Droid Athenian200's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by simulatedworld View Post
    Hmmm, that IS interesting. I guess you're right that they may possess rather intolerant attitudes about the ethical perfection of others...most of the INFPs I've met have had pretty similar ethical beliefs to mine, so we get along fine.

    I'd think the problem you've just described would, while somewhat applicable to INFP, still be much more applicable to INFJ, would it not? Their natural desire for closure and having things settled would seem to make them more likely to immediately dismiss you as "unethical", or worse yet, "EVIL!"

    INFPs may have some perfectionist attitudes about ethics, but I think INFs struggle more with their OWN ethical perfection than with that of others--that's the Extroverted Feeler's job. INFPs, in my experience, at least have the natural flexibility to listen to your reasoning for your ethical decisions and consider its worth before immediately dismissing you as evil?
    Actually, I wouldn't be so sure. INFJs would base their ethical standards on relating to others effectively, and would actually be more flexible than they seemed (since they're really Ni dominant, and Fe is only auxiliary). INFPs actually have much stronger ideas, that are based on their own subjective sense of what's right and wrong, which they constantly judge everything based on... but they try to change the angle they approach the situation with in order to seem flexible. Inside, they're far more rigid and unyielding. Don't be fooled. They may compromise and flex on the specific outward expression of something, but they are unwilling to really listen to anything that challenges their Fi values.

    I've seen an INFJ actually completely reverse their position on something soon after hearing an argument presented in just the right way, even if they had just condemned the person presenting it for behaving that way. The thing is, just because an INFJ condemns you outwardly right away based on an Fe value they've picked up doesn't mean they won't actually be forced to consider (with Ni+Ti) what you say and change their opinion if you do offer a valid argument. Remember, an INFJ is a dominant N... and an INFP is a dominant F.

    Of course, perhaps we just know different INFPs and INFJs. Or perhaps the INFPs I knew were just manifesting their shadow very strongly at the point I interacted with them.

  4. #114
    Revelation Lauren Ashley's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Athenian200 View Post
    Actually, I wouldn't be so sure. INFJs would base their ethical standards on relating to others effectively, and would actually be more flexible than they seemed (since they're really Ni dominant, and Fe is only auxiliary). INFPs actually have much stronger ideas, that are based on their own subjective sense of what's right and wrong, which they constantly judge everything based on... but they try to change the angle they approach the situation with in order to seem flexible. Inside, they're far more rigid and unyielding. Don't be fooled.
    Truer words have never been spoken.

  5. #115
    Revelation Lauren Ashley's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by simulatedworld View Post
    I'd think the problem you've just described would, while somewhat applicable to INFP, still be much more applicable to INFJ, would it not? Their natural desire for closure and having things settled would seem to make them more likely to immediately dismiss you as "unethical", or worse yet, "EVIL!"
    I think INFJs seem more judgmental because they show their judging function to the world. But INFPs are just as judgmental.

    I'm usually pretty flexible, but when I do pass judgment, I'll later rethink it and come to the conclusion that I was being too harsh. This is the way it works for me, at least.

  6. #116
    Let's make this showy! raz's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lauren Ashley View Post
    Until you violate whatever values their Fi holds.
    INFPs are cute and fun until you make that mistake. Then it's like...fuck, I feel like I just killed a kitten.


  7. #117
    The High Priestess Amargith's Avatar
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    I honestly wouldn't know. I guess the type that gets most annoyed with an ENFP and would seek to stiffle me. Cannot stand that. Oh and the type that automatically dismisses me as unimportant because of my playful nature. Those I wanna pound.
    ★ڿڰۣ✿ℒoѵℯ✿ڿڰۣ★





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  8. #118
    Blah Orangey's Avatar
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    Unhealthy ISFJs get under my skin.
    Artes, Scientia, Veritasiness

  9. #119
    Freshman Member simulatedworld's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Athenian200 View Post
    Actually, I wouldn't be so sure. INFJs would base their ethical standards on relating to others effectively, and would actually be more flexible than they seemed (since they're really Ni dominant, and Fe is only auxiliary). INFPs actually have much stronger ideas, that are based on their own subjective sense of what's right and wrong, which they constantly judge everything based on... but they try to change the angle they approach the situation with in order to seem flexible. Inside, they're far more rigid and unyielding. Don't be fooled. They may compromise and flex on the specific outward expression of something, but they are unwilling to really listen to anything that challenges their Fi values.

    I've seen an INFJ actually completely reverse their position on something soon after hearing an argument presented in just the right way, even if they had just condemned the person presenting it for behaving that way. The thing is, just because an INFJ condemns you outwardly right away based on an Fe value they've picked up doesn't mean they won't actually be forced to consider (with Ni+Ti) what you say and change their opinion if you do offer a valid argument. Remember, an INFJ is a dominant N... and an INFP is a dominant F.

    Of course, perhaps we just know different INFPs and INFJs. Or perhaps the INFPs I knew were just manifesting their shadow very strongly at the point I interacted with them.
    Well, you've helped increase my understanding of INFP vs. INFJ. Thank you.

    So are you saying, essentially, that INFJs may be more rigid and inflexible when an issue first comes up, but that their dominant Ni allows them to be reasoned with through NT-type rational analysis more easily than the INFP?

    Also, isn't "valid argument" kind of subjective? INFPs seem to me to be typically very open to listening to others' views (if for no other reason than to appear open, if you want to look at it cynically); how flexible they are simply depends on how good you are at explaining your side of issue with a focus on people and their subjective feelings. You can't use purely impersonal, rational debate as effectively with an INFP, but that's just because he has a different idea of what is "a valid argument."

    By the way, what is your type? I don't buy "True Neutral." We all have biases

  10. #120
    Freshman Member simulatedworld's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Amargith View Post
    I honestly wouldn't know. I guess the type that gets most annoyed with an ENFP and would seek to stiffle me. Cannot stand that. Oh and the type that automatically dismisses me as unimportant because of my playful nature. Those I wanna pound.
    Hmm, let's see....what type stifles people's playful nature and tends to automatically, outwardly and vocally dismiss anything that doesn't fit into their very singular worldview?

    You guessed it, ESTJ for the win. Seriously I'm starting to think we just need to round these people up and stick them all on an island somewhere, where they can all scream at each other until their little worlds collapse and their heads all explode from too much contact with other value systems.

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