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  1. #1
    Senior Member sculpting's Avatar
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    Default TJs: Te and empirical reality?

    The thread topic could be phrased imprecisely or sloppily-please feel free to answer to the general idea and not the specific terms.

    How do you know Te is objective? How do you know that the standards/metrics/empirical measures to which you apply to your ideas are really the most optimal? How do you know you are right?

  2. #2
    Senior Member The Great One's Avatar
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    Listen when I think Te, I think this....


  3. #3
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    Se + Te reality is best reality!

    It's just saying that logic is externally verifiable. It's how I knew I had Fi and Te. OF COURSE ethics come from within a person's feelings, and logic can only be checked externally, or you must be insane! Yeah, so that was my thought.

    Apparently though Fe/Ti people see it opposite, though, like ethics must be an externally verifiable thing to get along with a group of people and logic comes from within (which still sounds ENTIRELY INSANE TO ME...I mean I understand that Ti is more about precision and picking things apart, but there's a reason I apparently consider it to be demonic.)

    Te isn't necessarily empirical reality. Se would be that (but even Se is just a perception)...it is externally verifiable logic.

    The problem is when Te users want to run on Te alone without balancing it with other functions. Obviously there is more to life than externally verifiable logic.

    I think the biggest mistake people make with Thinking functions, in general, is in believing they somehow perceive reality more clearly. They're simply half of judging functions which judge half of reality.

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    Also, STJs are also TJs! All TJs are not NTs!

    And I am neither.

    *exits dramatically*

  5. #5
    Filthy Apes! Kalach's Avatar
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    Excise your own desire to have all determination be open-ended and find out for yourself.
    Bellison uncorked a flood of horrible profanity, which, translated, meant, "This is extremely unusual."

    Boy meets Grr

  6. #6
    Senior Member UniqueMixture's Avatar
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    How is Te about reality? Isn't it similar to deductive logic and so in many cases not accountable to reality?
    For all that we have done, as a civilization, as individuals, the universe is not stable, and nor is any single thing within it. Stars consume themselves, the universe itself rushes apart, and we ourselves are composed of matter in constant flux. Colonies of cells in temporary alliance, replicating and decaying and housed within, an incandescent cloud of electrical impulses. This is reality, this is self knowledge, and the perception of it will, of course, make you dizzy.

  7. #7
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    Quote Originally Posted by UniqueMixture View Post
    How is Te about reality? Isn't it similar to deductive logic and so in many cases not accountable to reality?
    Yes I agree with this, I mean "externally verifiable" can just mean pointing to sources that are "experts" in the external world. It doesn't always mean one is doing the measurement one's self.

    This is why certain TJs can seem so "rule bound" because they are relying on "experts" and external structure for a sense of logical order.

    On the other hand, I still think Te is closer to reality than Ti. Yes it is. YES IT IS.

  8. #8
    Filthy Apes! Kalach's Avatar
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    ^ my instinct is that the relationship to the perception function is vital. Imma claim there's no proper way of understanding a judgment "function" (beyond identifying it with lots of ideal properties, like "IT'S SOOOO LOGICAL, MAN!!!!") without connecting it to the context in which it operates: "Te" isn't Te, it's Te+Pe (and for other people, Pe+Te). So Te's as objective as any other e.


    That's what's so great about typology: rag on some function, and you end up ragging on your own.
    Bellison uncorked a flood of horrible profanity, which, translated, meant, "This is extremely unusual."

    Boy meets Grr

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    Analytical Dreamer Coriolis's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Orobas View Post
    How do you know Te is objective? How do you know that the standards/metrics/empirical measures to which you apply to your ideas are really the most optimal? How do you know you are right?
    Te is a process. The inputs come from and through other functions (I am being intentionally vague here). I see its objectivity in its reproducibility, by myself and others.

    I do not always know that the standards I am applying are the most optimal. The best I can do is make sure they are the best ones I can come up with based on what I know and the resources at hand. Of course, if I discover better ones, I upgrade. On the other hand, overkill is inefficient. I do not need to get more precision, or more perfection than I need. This may sound unsatisfying, but it is often very practical. As a trivial example, my SO will use a level when hanging pictures to make sure they are truly 100% level. I just eyeball it, since I don't so much want it to be level as to look level in the context of the room, where the walls and ceiling might not be entirely square, etc.

    I know I am right when things work, and work elegantly; when I am able to predict outcomes, avoid pitfalls, and succeed in what I am trying to do.
    I've been called a criminal, a terrorist, and a threat to the known universe. But everything you were told is a lie. The truth is, they've taken our freedom, our home, and our future. The time has come for all humanity to take a stand...

  10. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by Coriolis View Post
    I do not need to get more precision, or more perfection than I need. This may sound unsatisfying, but it is often very practical. ...example, my SO will use a level when hanging pictures to make sure they are truly 100% level. I just eyeball it, since I don't so much want it to be level as to look level in the context of the room, where the walls and ceiling might not be entirely square, etc.
    I wonder if your SO has Si as well as Ti? This sounds like hanging posters with my ESFJ ex.

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