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  1. #11
    Senior Member UniqueMixture's Avatar
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    Yeah, I agree. I just think the usa has been fucking itself over for the last 30+ years. Imo free higher education > free healthcare on the whole and there is zero political momentum to make that happen.
    For all that we have done, as a civilization, as individuals, the universe is not stable, and nor is any single thing within it. Stars consume themselves, the universe itself rushes apart, and we ourselves are composed of matter in constant flux. Colonies of cells in temporary alliance, replicating and decaying and housed within, an incandescent cloud of electrical impulses. This is reality, this is self knowledge, and the perception of it will, of course, make you dizzy.

  2. #12
    not to be trusted miss fortune's Avatar
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    I'm all for both, because they kind of feed off of one another in a way... quite a few poorer people either don't get a higher education or have to quit before their degree either because of health problems or to take care of a family member... and with free higher education there would be more people trained to deal with public health crises... not to mention a greater normalization of wealth as a possibility... maybe a growing middle class

    but yeah, if it weren't for scholarships I doubt I'd have much of an education
    “Oh, we're always alright. You remember that. We happen to other people.” -Terry Pratchett

  3. #13
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    I was about to post an original topic on this. It is something I have put a LOT of thought into. The term I was going to use though is Knowledge vs Intelligence. Or in computer terms, hard drive vs processing power.

    To me, you should strive to improve your "processing power" as anybody can memorize any piece of information but not anyone can do even some simple things like calculate basic math in their head (such as figuring out a tip), understand compass directions or recall bits of knowledge in real-time (such as during a debate).

    Which this brings up a pet peeve of mine which is that certain people are considered more intellectual simply because they have memorized information in subjects that have a certain intellectual superficiality to them. Such as philosophy, art, history, finance or politics. To me, a person who has all the statistics or rules of baseball memorized is just as smart as someone who knows various philosophical theories. Information is information.

    How quickly can you solve simple math problems? How in depth can you understand complex subjects such as math? How are you with spatial intelligence (important for fighter pilots). Are you creative? Can you brainstorm and come up with good ideas? Write poetry or stories? Can you take a car completely apart and put it back together? Can you do that if you've never worked on a car ever before? How good are you in political debate? How well can you write non-fiction? Or give speeches? How well can you teach something to someone else? How witty are you? How much stuff can you memorize and recall? How quickly can you recall that information? How quickly can you read a defense in Football and know which play to call as quarterback? Do you actually understand a triple integral enough to apply it to solve a real world problem? etc...

    These are just a handful of examples of what I consider a real measure of intelligence. And have thought a lot about the different ways of thinking between various different personality types to better understand how people think.

  4. #14
    The Memes Justify the End EcK's Avatar
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    ah, the irony
    Expression of the post modern paradox : "For the love of god, religions are so full of shit"

    Theory is always superseded by Fact...
    ... In theory.

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  5. #15
    pathwise dependent FDG's Avatar
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    Generally speaking, if you can learn very quickly you'll likely come across as well-read. I don't know anyone that can combine an extremely high problem-solving ability with idiocy / stupidity on an educational level.
    ENTj 7-3-8 sx/sp

  6. #16
    this is my winter song EJCC's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by whatever View Post
    intellect is the ability to grasp information and make something useful of it... whether it's an idea or an object

    education is just the information part
    Quote Originally Posted by Rasofy View Post
    Without intelligence, you won't be able to gain much from education. There's a symbiosis. It should be noted that education is much more than what you learn at school.
    Quote Originally Posted by INTP View Post
    education offers information, intelligence enables you to use this information well
    All of these!

    At my university (which is fairly prestigious), I'm surrounded by two types of people: people of average intelligence who worked really hard to get there, and extremely intelligent people who didn't have to work hard. I never took an IQ test (because they don't seem to measure much -- and it's also not high on my priority list), but I'm in the former group, not the latter, and I think my intelligence is not much higher than the average.

    The ones that really annoy me are the ones who use their book learning to make themselves look smarter, when it's obvious from how closed-minded they are, and how resistant they are to new information, that they aren't as smart as they think they are. They're like the guy in the bar scene from "Good Will Hunting".
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  7. #17
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    Can we throw "wisdom" in there, too? How do you all see the roles of intellect, education, and wisdom?

  8. #18
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    @bologna Willpower would also be a grand addition, ultimate control, which is what knowledge gives us.

  9. #19
    The Memes Justify the End EcK's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by FDG View Post
    Generally speaking, if you can learn very quickly you'll likely come across as well-read. I don't know anyone that can combine an extremely high problem-solving ability with idiocy / stupidity on an educational level.
    Yeah but the education system tends to de facto define learning as assimilating data and ready to go ways of ordering rather than really processing this data into larger patterns. Knowledge on the other hand requires a more creative process. Which is something that is correlated with intelligence I find, studies also correlate memory performance with intelligence (now ofc thats a very blurry term and everything so u can deny that statement, i meant it for the sake of expediency). However I think its more related to the fact that intelligence as commonly define in psychometrics seems highly correlated with the energy efficiency of individual neurons which probably simplifies assimilation of new data.
    Not my most solid argument though.
    Expression of the post modern paradox : "For the love of god, religions are so full of shit"

    Theory is always superseded by Fact...
    ... In theory.

    “I’d hate to die twice. It’s so boring.”
    Richard Feynman's last recorded words

    "Great is the human who has not lost his childlike heart."
    Mencius (Meng-Tse), 4th century BCE

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