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[INTP] Are INTP's really the least sociable archetype?

Cypocalypse

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We INTP's, in theory, have the weakest Fe, so going by that premise, we should be the most anti-social bunch.

Being an INTP myself, I can visualize, for example, how the I, Ne, Ti, and the P are interconnected, but I don't think the strengths of the other cognitive processes can easily be inferred out of the two strongest functions that I have (Ti and Ne).

In terms of how I deal with social situations, I have to admit that I'm not really that much comfortable with large social groups. The more 'shallow' they get (The S function), the more I get out of place. But I never realistically felt significantly alone. Yeah, the thought of isolation is there occasionally but I've always been proactive in structuring my social life.

The TJ's (also known to struggle with their Fe) can always brag about independence, self-sufficiency, and productivity, so in a way, they're creating a self-imposed perspective that it's OK to be alone.

On the other hand, there are some people who recognize that they need to get in touch with people and could be doing a thing or two about it.

The point I want to raise is, does it follow that a super strong Ti messes up the Fe?

I think I have a considerable knack for understanding people (though it may not necessarily translate to empathy or conformity to social protocol). The stronger P function implies a diminished judgment, the Ne/P function can make me 'see' a person beyond what is apparent, and the Ti is a major force in having the sincerity in understanding someone else. I may not be the star of a crowd but I do keep a stable set of close friends.

The difference I notice about myself, compared to the stereotypical notion of an INTP, is my better developed Fi, (that's why I question the arrangements of the cognitive processes, otherwise, my Fi should be way down there).

Though seriously, I really don't know which function is working at any point in time. It's kinda like a tug of war between Fi and Ti right there, but, in cases where a stereotypical INTP don't have Fi as a leverage, would that mean he'd really be the most anti-social archetype?

Between an xNTP and an xNTJ, I envision the latter to be the more egotistic archetype and the one that will most likely stick to his principles. The xNTP, on the other hand, can set aside his judgment so that he can understand the bigger picture.
 

Athenian200

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Actually, I think Ti and Fe usually work together in a conscious mind. Fi doesn't work with either, however. Understanding how people work would be a function of Ti and Fe. Ti is focused on the nature of how people (and other systems) they work, Fe is focused implementing this to produce positive affect. Both would understand some of the same things, but would have different values and emphasis on how they should be used.

Fi understands the nature of values and desires themselves, and sees how they work together. Te focuses on practical ways of acheiving and creating an example of what those values and desires mean in tangible terms.

That, to me, is why you always see Te with Fi, and Fe with Ti, never the other way around. Pushing one inwards results in the other going outwards.

INTP's aren't really the least socible, they're just the least popular. Meaning that people don't think of them as "cool" usually. That doesn't mean they don't have any friends, or that they can't get anyone to like them if they try. It just means they're not as interested in trying to be liked by the majority of people, although they may focus their limited emotional energy on a few special ones.

Does that make sense?
 

Cypocalypse

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The way I understand things is......

If Ti is a person's strongest, his weakest is the polar opposite, which is Fe. I don't think the two are interrelated at all.

That is....

Ti
Ne
Si
Fe

I think the Si and Fe inclusion are just derivatives of the Ti and Ne. Kinda like, well, since this asset A is the strongest, then the weak counterpart would be its inverse, by logic.

Anyway, in cognitive processes tests, my Fe is the weakest, so I assume that it explains the Fe being the inferior function of the INTP--that it is the weakest. Honestly, I don't know how to systematically assign the placing of the other cognitive processes (Te, Se, Fi, and Ni), though I've read in some articles that the shadow processes are supposed to be below the upper 4.
 

Badlands

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The functions of NT in general are the most disconnected from people. In STs, empathy more easily develops because of the S functions, but N functions, including Ne, are rather internally centered. Introversion only emphasizes this disconnection. I'm not sure how J-P falls in; that's probably more an issue of who you're compatible with socially. NTJs are more compatible with Guardians, while NTPs are more compatible with Artisans.
 

Electric

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This has been discussed around a gazillionth time. Why do people stereotype the INTP personality for being the least sociable. There have been many people that have beat them in being asocial. Do you know the chameleon INTP? They are freaking social.
 

Works

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This has been discussed around a gazillionth time. Why do people stereotype the INTP personality for being the least sociable. There have been many people that have beat them in being asocial. Do you know the chameleon INTP? They are freaking social.

I'd say I fit more into the chameleon INTP category which makes it a bit more difficult for others to type me. I have a very large group of acquaintances who I hang out with, though my friend list is shorter. Perhaps the INTPs I know in real life are just mild representations of the type, but they are also good with people as well. A lot of it seems to do with the amount of maturity and experience the person has.
 

Seanan

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I really don't know where the "unsociable" thing comes from either. As a child, a teacher said I would either be a person's best friend or worst enemy. I don't know about the "worst enemy" unless it meant a turned on cold shoulder but sure do know about the "best friend" part. I'm not good with crowds of people precisely because I need my inner resources to focus deeply on the person I'm speaking with... distractions disorient me in that effort. I've been told often, when I do focus individually, that no one has known them as well as I do... is that antisocial? I don't think so. I am also almost totally open when sharing as I tend not to "filter" emotionally.... facts are just that..facts.. and I make few judgements of self or others. That, I've been told, puts someone talking to me at ease... something seen as sociable actually but, ironically, therein may be the problem. Reading what some others (INFPs) have said here about hiding their vulnerability, the degree of openness I display is, perhaps, what is seen socially as "odd." Just looking at this site, I find INTPs to be the most "open" also and am perplexed by the "unsociable" portrait put on them.
 

Annuit Coeptis

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Why do people stereotype the INTP personality for being the least sociable.

"Please Understand Me" by Kiersey makes this claim.

But in my personal experience, I haven't found this to be true either..
 

CzeCze

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Why do people stereotype the INTP personality for being the least sociable.

INTPc?

Hahahahaha, I couldn't help myself it was too easy.

I'll think of a serious answer to the OP question later.
 

Seanan

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Yeh, I think that's probably part of it. Some irl also get their model from there too. We aren't all flamers and egomaniacs... in fact, I think a few "stand outs" over there aren't INTPs at all. I met a more experienced (read older lol) one there and we've discussed this indept via email so I'm not the only one sees it this way.
 

skil

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As an INTP, I would say that although I tend to avoid 'large' (ie 10+) groups, and sometimes human contact altogether, when forced into a situation with other people I can handle remarkably well. I have discovered (to my initial disbelief) that many acquaintances have very high opinions of me, despite the fact that I am typically quiet and reserved.
 

nozflubber

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Yeh, I think that's probably part of it. Some irl also get their model from there too. We aren't all flamers and egomaniacs... in fact, I think a few "stand outs" over there aren't INTPs at all. I met a more experienced (read older lol) one there and we've discussed this indept via email so I'm not the only one sees it this way.

Just because you despise our generation and vice versa doesn't mean neither have INTPs or even a lower frequency. I've made this error as well when typing older persons - don't let contempt cloud your thinking. Just try to imagine having the angst of this generation in a virile young INTP mind. It's not surprising many want people like me and uberfuhr banned at these places! :(

Rohan, let us put our differences aside and throw down mighty.
 

Seanan

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Just because you despise our generation and vice versa doesn't mean neither have INTPs or even a lower frequency. I've made this error as well when typing older persons - don't let contempt cloud your thinking. Just try to imagine having the angst of this generation in a virile young INTP mind. It's not surprising many want people like me and uberfuhr banned at these places! :(

Rohan, let us put our differences aside and throw down mighty.

Quite presumptuous and... dead wrong. :doh:
 

WillMagic

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As an INTP, I would say that although I tend to avoid 'large' (ie 10+) groups, and sometimes human contact altogether, when forced into a situation with other people I can handle remarkably well. I have discovered (to my initial disbelief) that many acquaintances have very high opinions of me, despite the fact that I am typically quiet and reserved.

Yeah, this is the case with me as well. I can be sociable if I have to, it's just that I don't enjoy it, and my enjoyment decreases with each additional person in the room. I enjoy quiet conversations and groups, one or two other people, but more than that I find myself needing to get the hell out of the room.

I often make a joke that the only reason I would take up smoking is to have an excuse to step outside at parties.
 

MacGuffin

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Yeh, I think that's probably part of it. Some irl also get their model from there too. We aren't all flamers and egomaniacs... in fact, I think a few "stand outs" over there aren't INTPs at all. I met a more experienced (read older lol) one there and we've discussed this indept via email so I'm not the only one sees it this way.

Lies!
 

MacGuffin

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Macguffin is a classic enfj.

Do these people know the history of that transformation?

I just discovered my true self, finally.

I will not have anyone disparage my beloved INTPs! I wub them so much!

:hug: :static: :hug: :static: :hug: :static:
 

CzeCze

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OMG, MacGuffin is really a flippin ENFJ?

Or is this more INTP dry humor that I'm not getting?

Either way, I blame the interwebz.
 

CzeCze

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Along with Seanan's comments and INTPc or the 'standard template' INTP -- yeah, it's one thing to be shy or even insecure, but to deny these things or use red herrings like intelligence or personality to mask 'areas that need work' -- you really hold yourself back.

I've met plenty of people IRL (and online) who don't meet common standards for 'social' or 'friendly' and am even friends with some. I remember one professor (INTJ?) who intimidated students like crazy and was very tough in class but I 'saw' her and she cracked me up and I became her research assistant and she loosened up around me.

As far as terse/unfriendly/standoffish/shy etc. some people I feel are authentic and don't mean any ill well. And some seem like they have chips on their shoulders, something to prove, or enjoy putting people out.

The INTPs I know in real life (including my anger management issued bro) are sociable in their own ways. They have a more mellow energy level but they can chat up people and respond to small talk.

My female INTP friends readily put themselves in social situations and mix and in some ways are quite 'extroverted' in their actions as far as going out a lot. And they like parties! One enjoys hosting dinner parties as well. I think their sociability -- like anyone else's "healthy adjustment to society" -- is related to how honest they are with themselves and how readily and thoughtfully they deal with their feelings and issues.

The 'standoffish' part of INTPs -- they're more selective about their friends though and can be pretty harsh or blunt about things they don't like. If someone they're not interested in tries to accost them or start small talk, they very well might just look at them and ignore them or maybe imperceptibly shrug. Hahhhaa, I think that's more a common introvert response though.

I actually think culturally, female INTPs fare better than their male counterparts as far as obstreperousness and stand-offishness goes.
 

elfinchilde

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INTJs are more sociable

:rofl1:

INTPs are likely to be the less sociable because they have the classic introversion trait, are intelligent enough to be alien to most humans and stubborn enough to not play the game (J)... even moreso, because of the P function they are disorganised to the point where attending social functions is improbable.

INTJs are more sociable because we are just as interested in human sciences and analysis, as are we are in physical sciences.
Thus the need to engage with and psychoanalyse groups. Hmmm... which also couples with our J function as we try to reorder the structure of society into our thinking...:devil:

Lets face it, INTPs are just the ugly sister of the INTJ.

perhaps it's not so much that they are stubborn enough to 'not play the game', but that they do not see the necessity of playing the game to be "acknowledged as superior." Of all the types, the intp is reputably the most individualistic. Since Ne means you see what can be, while Ti means you are not interested in asserting control over others. (as opposed to the INTJ's Te, which leads them to generally fear losing control, and to want to impose their 'vision' onto others.)

Second bolded is untrue. The INTP owns systems. So it all depends on what system the individual intp is interested in. Ne-Ti can mimick Fe very well. That's an advantage the INTJ does not possess. Most INTJs have to actually learn to get along, and by that, i do not mean lording it over others.

And it is also an assumption that all INTJs are interested in human sciences.

If an INTJ is mature enough, he/she should realise that most people do not like being controlled. In any case, it's about being well-adjusted. The INTP could learn to be more socially aware, just as the INTJ could learn to NOT impose onto others all the time. That's the hallmark of insecurity, whatever else you may call it. ie, live and let live.

If the INTP is the ugly sister of the INTJ, then perhaps that intp is the cinderella that hasn't yet blossomed.

bottomline: most intps are peaceable, in that they aren't interested in onesupmanship. Be it in games of popularity, or whatever. The competition, always, is within. The yardstick of measurement is within. That is why they do not require the approval of others, nor do they need to force others to think *their* way.
 
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