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  1. #11
    @.~*virinaĉo*~.@ Totenkindly's Avatar
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    It depends on the ISFJ. not all are that way, some are very accepting and don't expect others to do what they do.
    "Hey Capa -- We're only stardust." ~ "Sunshine"

    “Pleasure to me is wonder—the unexplored, the unexpected, the thing that is hidden and the changeless thing that lurks behind superficial mutability. To trace the remote in the immediate; the eternal in the ephemeral; the past in the present; the infinite in the finite; these are to me the springs of delight and beauty.” ~ H.P. Lovecraft

  2. #12
    Senior Member INTP's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jennifer View Post
    I find I do best with the ISTJs who are kind of flexy / relaxed... there's a subset of them who have some cultural interests (scifi, RPGs, musical groups, etc.) and aren't uptight about things. They tend to come off as a bit more geek/quirky in some ways, but are more adaptable and there are points of overlapping interest. I guess they would be more Si than Te / directive?

    i guess if I really examine things, the only potential SJ trait that bothers me to the point of not wanting to be around an SJ is a strong directiveness (Te or Fe, to the exclusion of perceiving and taking in information). The more restricted, judged, and controlled I feel, the more I want to get away. I don't care if they have their opinions, that's fine; and I don't mind knowing what they are; I just don't feel comfortable being judged and dominated because I don't happen to hold the same values. I need to feel respected or at least considered, rather than just viewed as an obstacle to them doing things their way.
    yea this ISTJ is relaxed and yea his interests are cultural, more specifically graffiti culture, so it wasnt like he was some stick in the ass vine taster snob type of person, but more like 'lets skip class and go bomb some trams'. he was quite heavy on Si, much more Si than Te, and Te was more like supporting the non intellectual Si(i mean like sciences, math or stuff like that). dunno really what hes like nowadays since i havent seen him in 2 years and only saw him once drunk/stoned in a bar then and didnt see him in like another two years before that.
    "Where wisdom reigns, there is no conflict between thinking and feeling."
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  3. #13
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    It is possible NTPs need structure, so we don't have to rely on our weak Si for that or on our weak Fe to help us feel comfortable in a group.

    On the other hand STJs are notoriously bad at planning and executing "fun".
    And their Ne is left aching and feeds them horror stories of an empty, unmemorable life.

    NTPs provide "fun", "creativity", "brain storming" - all of which might seem as a chore.

    I am unclear as to how it works with NFPs. Perhaps in an office setting ENFPs often revert to their tert Te, which is what STJs do all they and they are not amused (?). Perhaps NFPs' "flakiness" is too much for the uber responsible STJs (?).


    Congrats on the observation What you describe seems pretty common

  4. #14
    shadow boxer strawberries's Avatar
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    maybe they make the NTs lunch because they want to sex them...hang on that can't be it - no one would want to sex an INTP.

  5. #15
    Senior Member INTP's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by strawberries View Post
    no one would want to sex an INTP.
    my experience tells that this isnt true. but the question is that do INTPs(or anyone else) want to have sex with such weirdos who want to have sex with INTPs
    "Where wisdom reigns, there is no conflict between thinking and feeling."
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  6. #16
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    I don't have a problem with SJs, but I do have a problem with NJs!

  7. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by RaptorWizard View Post
    I don't have a problem with SJs, but I do have a problem with NJs!
    Thank you for gracing us with information on your problems.

    Very well, when in Rome ...
    I have gas when I eat beans. I will try and prepare beans for the 1st time in my life. God have mercy on my roommate('s soul).

    Am I doing it right? I feel like a Stargate explorer on these type fgorums. You know, with all these types ...



    On the other hand, no SJs commenting. Why and what is the possible solution.

  8. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by Istbkleta View Post
    Thank you for gracing us with information on your problems.

    On the other hand, no SJs commenting. Why and what is the possible solution.
    SJs are fine because they have a good sense of humility and they serve and follow good morals whereas NJs tend to be very twisted, manipulative, and controlling.

  9. #19
    this is my winter song EJCC's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jennifer View Post
    i guess if I really examine things, the only potential SJ trait that bothers me to the point of not wanting to be around an SJ is a strong directiveness (Te or Fe, to the exclusion of perceiving and taking in information). The more restricted, judged, and controlled I feel, the more I want to get away. I don't care if they have their opinions, that's fine; and I don't mind knowing what they are; I just don't feel comfortable being judged and dominated because I don't happen to hold the same values. I need to feel respected or at least considered, rather than just viewed as an obstacle to them doing things their way.
    This, and what @Mane said, ring true with me/SJs and NTPs -- as with me/SJs and anyone else. In a long-term relationship -- either close friendship or romantic relationship -- it is absolutely necessary for the SJ and their partner/BFF to share the same core (moral) values. (Interestingly, I've noticed that it's exactly the same with NFJs; I had a conversation with an ENFJ who was going to break up with her boyfriend because he thought ignorance was bliss and she thought knowledge was power!)

    I guess this would mean that NTPs don't care as much about morals/values, in friendships? Which I find fascinating, and almost impossible to relate to.

    Either way -- to answer the OP question with personal examples and to continue with the morals/values theme, if I mesh well with an NTP and we share interests, I can get along with them pretty well regardless of moral factors. I can seem judge-y initially, with the few things that I am unreasonably conservative about (e.g. the anti-pot-smoker bias that I'm still trying to shake), but that doesn't matter in (shallow) social situations; Ne banter is possible regardless.

    And in work situations, it doesn't matter at all. @entropie's example, with the SJs laughing, fixing his inefficiencies and trying to mold him into their standards, rings sadly true as well -- and the only exceptions I can think of are examples of when an NTP has gotten really good at playing by the office rules, i.e. fitting him/herself into the mold (and presumably finding more subtle ways to maintain individuality).

    Outside of work and outside of shallow friendships -- I get along extremely well with my INTP dad. We're both very well balanced (I have a lot of Ne, he has a lot of Fe), we're great at brainstorming together, and we're pretty much the best research team anywhere: Ti thoroughness + Te action.

    Also, 99% the times we've fought have been when he was in a bad mood, and got angry at me for something tiny and pointless ("becoming preoccupied with details, without any logical basis"). In other words, we've essentially never fought because of an actual personality clash.

    EDIT:
    Quote Originally Posted by Istbkleta View Post
    It is possible NTPs need structure, so we don't have to rely on our weak Si for that or on our weak Fe to help us feel comfortable in a group.
    My INTP dad does very well with structure, because he does very poorly with idleness and boredom. And considering his line of work, avoiding boredom means gaining structured activities. But he seems to really like it; he gets a kick out of putting "his touch" onto things that might otherwise be cookie-cutter.
    On the other hand STJs are notoriously bad at planning and executing "fun".
    And their Ne is left aching and feeds them horror stories of an empty, unmemorable life.
    ... No. Not at all.

    There's planned fun, and there's spontaneous fun. STJs may be bad at spontaneous fun (just like many other Js!), but if anything, we are notoriously GOOD at planned fun -- because planning and executing is what Te is best at! I, for example, am becoming pretty handy with logistics; in my mostly introvert friend group, I'm always the one planning and hosting the parties, delegating jobs (decorating/cooking/buying beverages) to other friends... etc.

    And if STJs are any good at planned fun, then they know how to put their Ne into it! Examples: decorating and cooking (as mentioned before), craft projects, planning/preparing the perfect gift for a friend's birthday.
    I am unclear as to how it works with NFPs. Perhaps in an office setting ENFPs often revert to their tert Te, which is what STJs do all they and they are not amused (?). Perhaps NFPs' "flakiness" is too much for the uber responsible STJs (?).
    The latter. When NFPs have well-developed Te, they're much easier to work with, i.e. in a work setting, precisely because their Te has reduced their flakiness.
    ~ g e t f e s t i v e ! ~


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    Coriolis: "Is that the ESTJ Serenity Prayer?"



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  10. #20
    Senior Member UniqueMixture's Avatar
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    A lot of n types get bullied by sjs in highschool and never forgive them for it. Remember a lot of n types on this forum are fairly young and have yet to learn how to be one with the sjs : ) )

    I had an estj girl I was seeing. She was absolutely brilliant, unfortunately she had extreme trust issues and was very control oriented
    For all that we have done, as a civilization, as individuals, the universe is not stable, and nor is any single thing within it. Stars consume themselves, the universe itself rushes apart, and we ourselves are composed of matter in constant flux. Colonies of cells in temporary alliance, replicating and decaying and housed within, an incandescent cloud of electrical impulses. This is reality, this is self knowledge, and the perception of it will, of course, make you dizzy.

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