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[INTP] How can I share my thoughts nicer?

pv255

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Jan 16, 2012
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I am an INTP. Apparently I come-off as a big arrogant, know-it-all, ass-hole. Those who really know me know that I am truly only a little arrogant, know-it-all, ass-hole. I think. :shock:
How to I speak my mind without offending my audience? At the same time I want to get my point across and not sound passive. This is something seriously inhibiting many parts of my life.
 

uumlau

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I am an INTP. Apparently I come-off as a big arrogant, know-it-all, ass-hole. Those who really know me know that I am truly only a little arrogant, know-it-all, ass-hole. I think. :shock:
How to I speak my mind without offending my audience? At the same time I want to get my point across and not sound passive. This is something seriously inhibiting many parts of my life.

  1. Listen to people say incorrect things (or correct things incorrectly) without telling them that they're incorrect.
  2. Clarify to them that you understand what they're saying, in their own terms. (Use this step to correct any misunderstandings of what they said.)
  3. Then say, essentially, "Here is what I see and how I see it. It differs from your version because ..."

Another tactic is to feed people good ideas, but don't insist that they accept every single one. Let them pick and choose which good ideas work for them. They might even come up with a better combination than you had thought of.
 

JocktheMotie

Habitual Fi LineStepper
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  1. [*]Listen to people say incorrect things (or correct things incorrectly) without telling them that they're incorrect.
  2. Clarify to them that you understand what they're saying, in their own terms. (Use this step to correct any misunderstandings of what they said.)
  3. Then say, essentially, "Here is what I see and how I see it. It differs from your version because ..."


Another tactic is to feed people good ideas, but don't insist that they accept every single one. Let them pick and choose which good ideas work for them. They might even come up with a better combination than you had thought of.

Bolded is the big one. Pay more attention to the general point and idea when someone is trying to tell you something, if people are using improper/imprecise terms simply translate them in your head as they go along, and use the "right" ones in your response.
 

pv255

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Ic, thanks.
Any suggestions to bigot or/and combative responses?
 

uumlau

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Ic, thanks.
Any suggestions to bigot or/and combative responses?

My rule of thumb is to never ascribe to evil that which can be attributed to normal ignorance/stupidity.

If your instinct to those kinds of statements is to attack them because they offend you, then it's guaranteed to start a fight which will go nowhere. If you instead desire to correct others' incorrect ideas (be they simply wrong or completely bigoted), then your only power to persuade is to suggest alternative ideas and see if any stick; directly asserting your point will instead start a fight which will go nowhere. If there is no way to address the bigotry, simply shun them from communication with you.
 

uumlau

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Ic, thanks.
Any suggestions to bigot or/and combative responses?

My rule of thumb is to never ascribe to evil that which can be attributed to normal ignorance/stupidity.

If your instinct to those kinds of statements is to attack them because they offend you, then it's guaranteed to start a fight which will go nowhere. If you instead desire to correct others' incorrect ideas (be they simply wrong or completely bigoted), then your only power to persuade is to suggest alternative ideas and see if any stick; directly asserting your point will instead start a fight which will go nowhere. If there is no way to address the bigotry, simply shun them from communication with you.
 

pv255

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Jan 16, 2012
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My rule of thumb is to never ascribe to evil that which can be attributed to normal ignorance/stupidity.

If your instinct to those kinds of statements is to attack them because they offend you, then it's guaranteed to start a fight which will go nowhere. If you instead desire to correct others' incorrect ideas (be they simply wrong or completely bigoted), then your only power to persuade is to suggest alternative ideas and see if any stick; directly asserting your point will instead start a fight which will go nowhere. If there is no way to address the bigotry, simply shun them from communication with you.

Shrug, I don't normally react to people's offensive comments or aggressive tone, but then I also never get my point across. The absolute most annoying thing to me is whenever they completely ignore or change the subject (90% of the time). Again, I never get my point across. Do any of you guys feel this way sometimes?

You're comments are appreciated, but they are pretty general, which is my fault. I'll explain a specific situation later.
 

StephMC

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I am an INTP. Apparently I come-off as a big arrogant, know-it-all, ass-hole. Those who really know me know that I am truly only a little arrogant, know-it-all, ass-hole. I think. :shock:
How to I speak my mind without offending my audience? At the same time I want to get my point across and not sound passive. This is something seriously inhibiting many parts of my life.

This is true ;) <3

Other than that I have no input right now. :p
 

INTP

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i dont think you need to stop telling people if they are wrong, just need to learn to acknowledge when it doesent help and just annoys people. i mean after all, you most likely are doing it to help other people and for some weird reason most people tend not to like it when they get corrected all the time(i guess it hurts their ego or something). so you need to learn to stop when you get the urge to correct and think whether the other person will just get butthurt(in this case the correction you make will be most likely useless, since they dont want to assimilate the information you give cuz emo) or if this will actually help the other person.
if making this sort of decisions on the fly, i suggest raising the threshold in you correcting others a bit and look if you get different results.

dont try to be someone that you are not or you will just get unhappy and even if some people start to like you more, they dont like the real you, but this new role that you play and people who would like the real you, might end up not liking you as much since they dont see the real you. just learn to prioritize when to show different aspects of you, and do so according to emotional needs of others more. and i know that when you correct people, you do it because they need to be corrected, but its not their emotional need, its just what you think is important, while most people see their emotional needs as more important
 

pv255

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i dont think you need to stop telling people if they are wrong, just need to learn to acknowledge when it doesent help and just annoys people. i mean after all, you most likely are doing it to help other people and for some weird reason most people tend not to like it when they get corrected all the time(i guess it hurts their ego or something). so you need to learn to stop when you get the urge to correct and think whether the other person will just get butthurt(in this case the correction you make will be most likely useless, since they dont want to assimilate the information you give cuz emo) or if this will actually help the other person.
if making this sort of decisions on the fly, i suggest raising the threshold in you correcting others a bit and look if you get different results.

dont try to be someone that you are not or you will just get unhappy and even if some people start to like you more, they dont like the real you, but this new role that you play and people who would like the real you, might end up not liking you as much since they dont see the real you. just learn to prioritize when to show different aspects of you, and do so according to emotional needs of others more. and i know that when you correct people, you do it because they need to be corrected, but its not their emotional need, its just what you think is important, while most people see their emotional needs as more important

It is situational. During leisure discussions, I sort of do what uumlau said. It take some energy, but I've learn to be nice or shut up. If they dont compute, whatever i really wasnt trying to achieve anything anyway.

At work, I try the nice thing and nothing gets done. I try the mean thing and nothing gets done (the mean thing really isnt mean, it is just a monopolizing the conversation with an assertive tone, no name calling or anything). I guess I just have to figure people out and play the manipulation game, which takes a lot of energy. But I have to be objective.

When I hear a bigot statement, no matter where, you get the assertive monologue. It doesnt make friends, but... o well.

One situation where I want to be objective but dont want to manipulate is with my family. I am the youngest of five (2 parents, 3 children, including me). I've identified my dad, mother, and too sisters as ISTJ, INFJ, INTJ, and ISFJ respectively. I am trying to persuade them to learn about MBTI to add depth to our relationship, but they are very resistant. I would just ignore them, but my mother is very insistent that I participate in every family event. They are a puzzle I dont know how to deal with.
 

entropie

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Working on your appearance helps as well (tho I dont know if you need to, I am just giving an idea). People are bought by the cheapest tricks. So get yourself some nice clothing, something modern or hip or professional and let your hair be made so your face looks nicer. If you tell to the barber "make me look nicer" they usually know what to do.

Its all about cheap tricks, cause reason and rationality wont help you with people.
 

prplchknz

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here's what I do when someone says something stupid answer politely than in my head add a snarky comment, it makes me feel better and the other person isn't offending
 

uumlau

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Working on your appearance helps as well (tho I dont know if you need to, I am just giving an idea). People are bought by the cheapest tricks. So get yourself some nice clothing, something modern or hip or professional and let your hair be made so your face looks nicer. If you tell to the barber "make me look nicer" they usually know what to do.

Its all about cheap tricks, cause reason and rationality wont help you with people.

Which is why ENTPs seem to be working on some trick or another. :newwink:

Good grooming remains good advice, in general. It doesn't necessarily make others think well of you, but it almost certainly will help to keep them from being repulsed by, for example, unbrushed teeth accompanied by the delightful odor of halitosis.
 

ceecee

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What I found useful was saying - I understand what you are saying/I can see your point...but....<insert my view>. Bigoted remarks - you're entitled to your opinion/any view you want but that doesn't mean others share it. Family, hang it up right now. I guarantee, them learning about MBTI, which they don't care about, is NOT going to add depth to your relationship. I never bring it up to anyone. It's a tool for me to use to understand people, in general, better. Why let them in on it, they can do their own homework if they wish.
 

BlackCat

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Bolded is the big one. Pay more attention to the general point and idea when someone is trying to tell you something, if people are using improper/imprecise terms simply translate them in your head as they go along, and use the "right" ones in your response.

Being on the receiving end of this, I'd say you're totally right. NTs are some of the coolest conversationalists for me because they can actually understand what I'm saying sometimes deeper than I'm comprehending (thoughts more in the ID), or it's to a level of depth that I didn't think anyone could really perceive so I don't bother trying to go there. But they're some of the most annoying when they just focus on semantics and not the bigger picture.
 

pv255

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you're entitled to your opinion/any view you want but that doesn't mean others share it.
Everyone always say that. I agree if the issue is subjective, but many issues are objective. I see so many objective decisions that are made on a subjective basis thinking they are being objective. I sort of feel obligated to point out their error in logic, and I do when I have energy. The bigot part just gives me extra motivation. I pick my battles, because I have limits. In general though, I think negligence is unacceptable. (that statement is subjective ;))

I never bring it up to anyone. It's a tool for me to use to understand people, in general, better. Why let them in on it, they can do their own homework if they wish.

Ne/Ni difference. or maybe it is Fe/Fi. who knows...
 

Giggly

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If you want an easier way, you can use what you have to your advantage. There is always a niche for this. Find it and forget the rest.
 

Snow Turtle

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People might find this behaviour pointless and a waste of time, instead of cutting straight to the point. But I personally think it's a pretty good tactic that works well with Ti based communication.

Step 1) Repeat back their point of view, showing that you understand how they reached that conclusion.
Step 2) Then play the devil's advocate, even if it's your real view point. Make them enquiry about a potentially different view point.

Guess what could be seen as the "manipulative" part here is that it's not 100% clear whether you are revealing your own view point.

Reasoning. 1) Direct confrontations usually make people more stubborn about their view points. This affects most people regardless of type. Really, the only time this doesn't really play out is when people have adopted a mentor-student dynamic. 2) You aren't viewed as an opponent, merely someone facilitating thought-discussions. 3) People assimilating information, or making their own enquiries-research are much more likely to adopt a position than when being told.

Result.Even if you don't get an exact switch in attitude. You'll find this approach often softens their own view points and overtime is more susceptible to change (Assuming your reasoning is sound). Only problem is, this might take effort as opposed to straight up saying "Your approach is rubbish." which is how I feel when I can't be bothered to reason with people.

Writing this all out makes me sound like some schemer. But honestly, this is naturally how I communicate because I don't really like clashes, and more importantly realised that if I truly want to pass on information, clashing is the most rubbish method to correct/informing someone. Arguments are more about reinforcing your own view points and how well they can survive against examination. Discussion is more about passing on information to others. The former can be fun exercise, but it makes you appear more like a bigot. Worse case scenario in the latter is that you'll come across like a teacher. This is often the vibe I get when I see other FJs, or balanced TPs (in terms of feeling and awareness) discuss things.

Which one are you more interested in is the real question. Are you truly interested in correcting individuals for them to learn, or are you merely asserting your own personality and desire for things to be logical?
 

RaptorWizard

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The truth is always nicer than charisma. If people cannot except truth then you do not need to be liked by them.
 
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