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[INTJ] Common INTJ Issues

Salomé

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You are reading into this motivations that are not (always) there; or perhaps it is just some odd sort of wishful thinking. INTJs can be very opinionated, and forthcoming about speaking our minds. We refuse to be dominated, but that does not equate to a desire to dominate others. (That is more ENTJ, but only the stereotype.) Some people do mistakenly view the two attitudes as equivalent.
Lol @ wishful thinking. Um, no. I'm no NFP. And I know when someone is trying to dominate me. (INTPs are every bit as resistant to it as you guys are, probably more so). The fact that you felt the need to qualify, tells me you understand the dynamic at least a little bit. And INTJ women are generally much less prone to this behaviour than the men.
I think Mia called it:
3. Related to #2, fear of rejection (yeah, I said it) which leads to them being an over-the-top ass in order to retain a sense of control over the situation.
4. Speaking of need to control… yeah, probably don’t even need to expound on that one.
5. I knew one with a preoccupation with revenge that did not serve him well.
I would say the INTJ need to control is more toxic than the ENTJ one, because the latter are at least aware of it, whereas the INTJ need is a distortion of their self-preservation instinct, and as such, is less under their conscious control and so emerges in more distinctly crazy ways (at least in my experience). If you aren't aware of it, that's not surprising. I suppose that's what makes these threads so valuable...

“O, wad some Power the giftie gie us
To see oursels as others see us!
It wad frae monie a blunder free us,
An' foolish notion.”
 

Kalach

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I would say the INTJ need to control is more toxic than the ENTJ one, because the latter are at least aware of it, whereas the INTJ need is a distortion of their self-preservation instinct, and as such, is less under their conscious control and so emerges in more distinctly crazy ways (at least in my experience).

Self preservation would normally lead one to isolate themselves, wouldn't it? Or at least to hold back attachment. And these would be the comparatively benign manifestations. But apparently there's INTJs moving into the environment to exert control too? It's almost like it's NOT a reaction to something from the environment, eh.

So are we talking about INTJs in general or INTJs in relationship with someone who rubs them against their admittedly wildly over-sensitive grain?
 

Salomé

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Self preservation would normally lead one to isolate themselves, wouldn't it? Or at least to hold back attachment. And these would be the comparatively benign manifestations. But apparently there's INTJs moving into the environment to exert control too? It's almost like it's NOT a reaction to something from the environment, eh.

So are we talking about INTJs in general or INTJs in relationship with someone who rubs them against their admittedly wildly over-sensitive grain?
You would think... And yet if you challenge their competence (even inadvertently) you are immediately marked as a threat to their very being (since they, even more than the other NTs are so deeply invested in ideas of their own infallibility). Which is, incidentally, why they tend to choose partners that will make them feel like demi-gods (i.e. your average NFP groupie). To show them they are fallible, and even, on occasion, incompetent, is to show them a picture of their own mortality. It is holding up the mirror to the Nietzschean abyss. Hence the disproportionately vitriolic attacks/desire to crush you out of existence (sometimes, bizarrely, from my perspective, coupled with a desire for sexual conquest).
 

Amargith

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Actually, I find that most INTJs when approached the right way, are very open to their own fallibility. Especially their emotional fallibility, in which they tend to take cues, as long as you do not threaten their right to be *them* (very Fi, that way), warts and all. With regards to their skills and competence..yes, it is something that is somewhat more sensitive as they pride themselves on that. And often rightly so. But if you walk them through your thought process, brainstorm together and ask logical questions along the way, they have often have no problem a) following your reasoning, b) actually *seriously* contemplating it and c) right there and then changing their own vision to take in the extra info you provided with your insights OR take the time after your conversation to contemplate what youve said and consequently make the necessary adjustments to their view of things.

Granted, telling them blatantly that they are wrong and calling them incompetent, especially in public, is likely to get you the Te-boot fueled by Fi righteousness. But ultimately, they care about knowledge, truth and efficiency. Hint that you might be able to expand their knowledge on a topic they care for greatly and they are all over you to share those secrets already, hanging on your lips and giving credit where credit is due, ime :shrug:

Afterthought:

In fact, ime, it isnt about who is right or who is wrong, in most situations, but more about who has which priorities...which is what decides your slanted view on the world. Confronting INTJs with empirical facts will definitely make them admit that they were 'wrong', but the importance, best use and priority of those facts is all up for debates. It is a difference in perspectives and yes...INTJs are *incredibly* reluctant to give up their perspective as they already have determined very early on which perspective is of greatest value to them. To tell them they are wrong to hold that perspective is...well, frankly, counterproductive. All you can do is discuss the issues with the perspective that border on the fringe, which you consider important as well and get them to re-evaluate if they can see why they could be valuable. And then, to leave them alone to decide on their own if they want to shift their perspective :shrug:

I guess this Fi vs Ti to a T? :thinking:
 

Salomé

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Actually, I find that most INTJs when approached the right way, are very open to their own fallibility.

Approaching an INTJ "the right way" means "on your knees".

That may appeal to you. I say, "fuck dat shit". Bring on the SciFi trauma. ;)

Seriously, though, they are very good/bad at perceiving slights where none were intended. Or taking an attack on their ideas personally (perhaps this is dodgy Fi, as you say). It's what makes them so unbearable in debate. I put it down to their propensity to take themselves / life too seriously and to think far too much of themselves. When I encounter such people I have an irresistible urge to burst the balloon of their pomposity. I think this is as much my cultural heritage as anything else.

The best thing an INTJ can do, is learn to laugh at himself and stop fearing mistakes. They get all stiff and paralysed by that fear and it turns them into total bores.
It kind of amazes me that there are people who find their quirks endearing. I suppose it's just as well that there are...
 

Amargith

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Approaching an INTJ "the right way" means "on your knees".

That may appeal to you. I say, "fuck dat shit". Bring on the SciFi trauma. ;)

Seriously, though, they are very good/bad at perceiving slights where none were intended. Or taking an attack on their ideas personally (perhaps this is dodgy Fi, as you say). It's what makes them so unbearable in debate. I put it down to their propensity to take themselves / life too seriously and to think far too much of themselves. When I encounter such people I have an irresistible urge to burst the balloon of their pomposity. I think this is as much my cultural heritage as anything else.

The best thing an INTJ can do, is learn to laugh at himself and stop fearing mistakes. They get all stiff and paralysed by that fear and it turns them into total bores.
It kind of amazes me that there are people who find their quirks endearing. I suppose it's just as well that there are...

I agree with the bolded. Funny enough, that is the thing that ENFPs often are capable of eliciting from INTJs, which might be the reason for their interest in us. And once they get going..they really do get going and they can be all kinds of silly. As for getting on my knees, I find that INTJs respond just fine to you standing. To cut through the metaphor, ime they in fact very much have a lot more respect for someone who will challenge them as that person will make them think...something they value. However, the way in which this is done is crucial. ENFPs tend to do this in a joking, non-serious and non-threatening kind of way, which in turn can often puzzle the INTJ, and also remind him to...well, take life a little less serious ;)

Other Ts are often...more direct about things which easily can lead to fierce battles. Even between ENTJ and INTJ this can happen, though they will often eventually, after taxing each other, often come to some sort of understanding. Perhaps that is also due to the fact that both parties have a lot invested in the topic. When both parties are unwilling to budge on the topic as they value that over the relationship between the two of them, then there is no reason for them to seek understanding. Since ENFPs tend to be focused on the relationship usually, they will be more open to exploring and changing on topics that are often very important to an INTJ. The few times that we do take a stance (if the INTJ has a previous rapport with us), they will consider our pov as they realize that this one is important to us. Does that mean I let them bulldoze me into submission? No. But to me it isn't *that* vital that they see things my way. I just share how I see things (and listen to their side, as it might enrich my pov), and let them figure out whether or not it has value to them. Forcing it down their throats (and that is something ENFPs and INTJs share :D) is bound to get you a solid brick wall.


As for the SiFi trauma...the kind of damage and the amount of repairs that involves, is heart-wrenching, so let's not use their tender beautiful hearts as our personal lab rat, shall we? :ninja: :alttongue:
 

Salomé

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ENFPs are just ludicrously lovely and accommodating and perhaps the only people able to put up with their shit. That's why INTJs like them. As for why ENFPs like INTJs when they could have their pick of types? I put that down to their propensity to be masochistic. ;)
 

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Actually, I find that most INTJs when approached the right way, are very open to their own fallibility. Especially their emotional fallibility, in which they tend to take cues, as long as you do not threaten their right to be *them* (very Fi, that way), warts and all. With regards to their skills and competence..yes, it is something that is somewhat more sensitive as they pride themselves on that. And often rightly so. But if you walk them through your thought process, brainstorm together and ask logical questions along the way, they have often have no problem a) following your reasoning, b) actually *seriously* contemplating it and c) right there and then changing their own vision to take in the extra info you provided with your insights OR take the time after your conversation to contemplate what youve said and consequently make the necessary adjustments to their view of things.

Granted, telling them blatantly that they are wrong and calling them incompetent, especially in public, is likely to get you the Te-boot fueled by Fi righteousness. But ultimately, they care about knowledge, truth and efficiency. Hint that you might be able to expand their knowledge on a topic they care for greatly and they are all over you to share those secrets already, hanging on your lips and giving credit where credit is due, ime :shrug:

Afterthought:

In fact, ime, it isnt about who is right or who is wrong, in most situations, but more about who has which priorities...which is what decides your slanted view on the world. Confronting INTJs with empirical facts will definitely make them admit that they were 'wrong', but the importance, best use and priority of those facts is all up for debates. It is a difference in perspectives and yes...INTJs are *incredibly* reluctant to give up their perspective as they already have determined very early on which perspective is of greatest value to them. To tell them they are wrong to hold that perspective is...well, frankly, counterproductive. All you can do is discuss the issues with the perspective that border on the fringe, which you consider important as well and get them to re-evaluate if they can see why they could be valuable. And then, to leave them alone to decide on their own if they want to shift their perspective :shrug:

I guess this Fi vs Ti to a T? :thinking:



This sounds like any NTJ i feel like.

Are you saying Fi takes ideas personally if confronted "wrong"? I agree with that if so. I take my ideas WAAAY too personally, I have to remember to stop putting things out there. But if someone was to just say "Hey there, did you ever come across this?" I would be way more open to the new information, unlike on here where people just tell you you're being too judgemental or not open-minded enough and other crap like that, even though they're looking at it from a subjective POV as well (ehem cough Ti cough cough)
 

Evo

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Are you pointing to me? *Looks behind her*


I'm not a Perciever. *cringe* and I die trying to use Si.

Can you explain why some people keep saying this? lol

I have no idea how "HA HA. nice." means ENFP :shock:

Maybe cause I refrained from saying "Wouldn't you just leave her after them though?"
 

Amargith

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ENFPs are just ludicrously lovely and accommodating and perhaps the only people able to put up with their shit. That's why INTJs like them. As for why ENFPs like INTJs when they could have their pick of types? I put that down to their propensity to be masochistic. ;)

You do realize that INTPs often snag their very own ENFP, right? Don't despair...just yet :smooch: :D

This sounds like any NTJ i feel like.

Are you saying Fi takes ideas personally if confronted "wrong"? I agree with that if so. I take my ideas WAAAY too personally, I have to remember to stop putting things out there. But if someone was to just say "Hey there, did you ever come across this?" I would be way more open to the new information, unlike on here where people just tell you you're being too judgemental or not open-minded enough and other crap like that, even though they're looking at it from a subjective POV as well (ehem cough Ti cough cough)

I think that it is choice of which ideas to value and why (essentially Fi) that trips Ti-users with Fi-users in arguments. Ti-users are usually the ones that are quite protective of their actual own (subjective) ideas and their truth as such...from what I can understand ( I havent really bonded with my Ti yet :ninja:)

But, see, this is what might help clear up the misunderstanding, in this case between INTJ and INTP: the different approach which comes naturally to ENFPs as Fi-users is what makes INTJs more...open to us. We value our freedom to value what we as a person consider important, so normally we naturally try to respect that in others, whereas Ti-users value their carefully put together ideas and experience it as controlling when someone tries to tell them different based on external data. Id wager (and S, correct me if Im wrong), that they consider NTJs often not thorough enough in their analysis and not inclusive enough in what to consider before forming an opinion on a topic, focusing only on the way things work instead of the way things (in the opinion of the INTP) *are*, as in are put together.
 

Evo

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You do realize that INTPs often snag their very own ENFP, right? Don't despair...just yet :smooch: :D



I think that it is choice of which ideas to value and why (essentially Fi) that trips Ti-users with Fi-users in arguments. Ti-users are usually the ones that are quite protective of their actual own (subjective) ideas and their truth as such...from what I can understand ( I havent really bonded with my Ti yet :ninja:)

But, see, this is what might help clear up the misunderstanding, in this case between INTJ and INTP: the different approach which comes naturally to ENFPs as Fi-users is what makes INTJs more...open to us. We value our freedom to value what we as a person consider important, so normally we naturally try to respect that in others, whereas Ti-users value their carefully put together ideas and experience it as controlling when someone tries to tell them different based on external data. Id wager (and S, correct me if Im wrong), that they consider NTJs often not thorough enough in their analysis and not inclusive enough in what to consider before forming an opinion on a topic, focusing only on the way things work instead of the way things (in the opinion of the INTP) *are*, as in are put together.

Second paragraph: Yea sounds right.

I the first paragraph: I have no idea. I don't understand Ti at all. lol but the ninja is cute
 

Salomé

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You do realize that INTPs often snag their very own ENFP, right? Don't despair...just yet :smooch: :D
The guys often do, it's true (or, more accurately, they get snagged). They don't do it for me though. I much prefer INFPs (less slutty, more discriminating ;) )

I think that it is choice of which ideas to value and why (essentially Fi) that trips Ti-users with Fi-users in arguments. Ti-users are usually the ones that are quite protective of their actual own (subjective) ideas and their truth as such...from what I can understand ( I havent really bonded with my Ti yet :ninja:)
We do defend our ideas, we just don't invest so much of our identity in them (in the way INTJs do) so we are happier to have them challenged. Ps are just generally more open to challenge/new information.
/obviously

Ti-users value their carefully put together ideas and experience it as controlling when someone tries to tell them different based on external data. Id wager (and S, correct me if Im wrong), that they consider NTJs often not thorough enough in their analysis and not inclusive enough in what to consider before forming an opinion on a topic, focusing only on the way things work instead of the way things (in the opinion of the INTP) *are*, as in are put together.
Nah. What pisses me off about NTJs is when they are condescending, insulting, domineering and relentlessly petty. They lose sight of the big picture and get bogged down in irrelevant details and stupid, boring pissing contests which are wholly non-constructive. Part of the reason for that may be because they are closed off to new ideas, but it's difficult to know which is chicken and which is egg. It's not difficult to know which is tiresome though. (Goes without saying this only applies to immature NTJs ).
 

Amargith

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:shrug: I'd say its a difference in priorities. INTPs tend to prioritise and entertain their logic and ideas in an open mind, whereas INTJs prioritise external realities and how they can suit their vision. While both may have an active interest in the same topic, where they are going with that information is radically different. And due to those different perspectives a clash may occur as to what in fact does matter more. Add to that that Te tends to be rather absolute when it says that this needs to be done (in order to complete the vision, which is often not mentioned as it is assumed clear to everyone) and that is a definite way to piss off an independent Ne-user, no doubt :laugh:

Meanwhile however, the fact that INTPs feel the need to nitpick at every bit of the logical process, even the parts that are not practical in reality and will actually gain you nothing tangible (and do not work towards a specific goal) piss off an INTJ , especially as INTJs tend to be on the clock and have little patience for what they consider redundancy (which your ideas are to them, as they are of no particular use in their priorities). Butthurt happens because Ti feels invalidated by the INTJ and Te feels frustrated at the INTPs insistence to comb through every little redundant piece of information (hence delaying the process of actually getting shit done already), and worse, the need to keep going through that same loop until the information is including (Ti-Si loops in INTPs seriously can drive someone to the point of banging their heads against the wall, no offense :alttongue:).

On top of that, the way in which Ti takes things apart and challenges them for being incomplete or not properly prioritised invalidates the Fi-values of the individual (which means that they in turn feel that their freedom is trampled upon) and undermines the Ni vision which causes defensiveness and stonewalling from Te, whereas the INTP will actually in turn feel frustration at the fact that the INTJ doesnt seem to want to follow protocol as to how things are done, communicated and debated, traditionally...aka SiFe. Rest assured that Im aware of the fact that the NiFi loop is equally 'bangwall'-worthy :D

(For the record, Im aware that Ti is going to go nuts over the holes that are to be found in my first draft, so consider this a brainstorm session :ninja:)
 

Salomé

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You may understand INTJs, but you definitely don't understand INTPs.
And when people start spouting off about those stupid (nonexistent) loops I just turn off. You can interpret anything in those terms if you so choose. It has zero validity, however.
 

Amargith

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:laugh:

See, this right here is the difference between Ti and Te (and it doesnt help that mine is tertiary, Im sure :D). Its certainly true that my understanding of INTPs is more limited (I dont live with one), though I tend to get along pretty decently with them. I seem to understand the outer layers and even some beneath, but the core...Im still working on that one ;)

Anycase, I guess we had to stop derailing this thread at some point :shrug:

Edit: I'd love for any INTPs who stumble upon this convo and want to give feedback to rep me whether or not they understood where I was going and if I was onto something. Thanks!
 

Salomé

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It's the difference between knowing INTPs and not knowing them at all.

Theories around cog function order/development are complete bullshit. I mean, theoretically, they're a pig's ear and intellectually unsatisfying - so Ti users reject it. Also, empirically, they've been SHOWN to be complete bullshit (incapable of making valid predictions) so Te users reject it. But you Hi-Fi guys, you love that crap. Probably because it explains away all the inconvenient nastiness of people in reversible loopiness and growth potentials. I dunno. Anyway, more specific critique of your post:
I'd say its a difference in priorities. INTPs tend to prioritise and entertain their logic and ideas in an open mind, whereas INTJs prioritise external realities and how they can suit their vision. While both may have an active interest in the same topic, where they are going with that information is radically different. And due to those different perspectives a clash may occur as to what in fact does matter more.
Different focus doesnt entail conflict. It can be (and often is, say with an ESTJ) complementary. The conflict is rooted in ego-defense, not conflicting priorities.
Add to that that Te tends to be rather absolute when it says that this needs to be done (in order to complete the vision, which is often not mentioned as it is assumed clear to everyone) and that is a definite way to piss off an independent Ne-user, no doubt :laugh:
Nope. Doesn't piss me off at all. I love (and need) this kind of clarity to be externally imposed at times. I have enough Te to take charge if no one else will, but it's not my preferred role, since it's not my greatest strength.

Meanwhile however, the fact that INTPs feel the need to nitpick at every bit of the logical process, even the parts that are not practical in reality and will actually gain you nothing tangible (and do not work towards a specific goal) piss off an INTJ , especially as INTJs tend to be on the clock and have little patience for what they consider redundancy (which your ideas are to them, as they are of no particular use in their priorities).
We aren't all idiots or autists - we don't do this. Just because a Te user labels something as "nit-picking" doesn't make it so. If we feel strongly enough to raise an issue, it's because we know it's IMPORTANT in the grand scheme of things. Many's the time I've been ignored in favour of an often entirely arbitrary deadline, and my prophecies of failure come to pass. I like it when that happens. Te users carry on obsessing about their stupid schedules though, because they suck at learning from their mistakes and flexing and reacting to emerging requirements.
Butthurt happens because Ti feels invalidated by the INTJ
Simply wrong. We dont seek validation from external sources. We sometimes get frustrated, because we think they are anal-retentive dim-wits. That's as far as it goes.
and Te feels frustrated at the INTPs insistence to comb through every little redundant piece of information (hence delaying the process of actually getting shit done already),
already covered.
and worse, the need to keep going through that same loop until the information is including (Ti-Si loops in INTPs seriously can drive someone to the point of banging their heads against the wall, no offense :alttongue:).
None taken. Most types make us feel like banging our heads, or more accurately, theirs, through a wall. Sometimes this is just an INTP stalling for time: you can't rush greatness. And sometimes it's good old passive-aggression. Because driving people nuts is fun for us.

On top of that, the way in which Ti takes things apart and challenges them for being incomplete or not properly prioritised invalidates the Fi-values of the individual (which means that they in turn feel that their freedom is trampled upon) and undermines the Ni vision which causes defensiveness and stonewalling from Te,
Wow, just kinda words really. Words that don't make sense...
;)
whereas the INTP will actually in turn feel frustration at the fact that the INTJ doesnt seem to want to follow protocol as to how things are done, communicated and debated, traditionally...aka SiFe.
:shock:What??? Since when are we sticklers for protocol? Have you ever even met an INTP?
 

Kalach

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You would think... And yet if you challenge their competence (even inadvertently) you are immediately marked as a threat to their very being (since they, even more than the other NTs are so deeply invested in ideas of their own infallibility). Which is, incidentally, why they tend to choose partners that will make them feel like demi-gods (i.e. your average NFP groupie). To show them they are fallible, and even, on occasion, incompetent, is to show them a picture of their own mortality. It is holding up the mirror to the Nietzschean abyss. Hence the disproportionately vitriolic attacks/desire to crush you out of existence (sometimes, bizarrely, from my perspective, coupled with a desire for sexual conquest).

Hot.

True too.
 

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Anycase, I guess we had to stop derailing this thread at some point :shrug:

. Ps are just generally more open to challenge/new information.
/obviously

They lose sight of the big picture and get bogged down in irrelevant details

I disagree. I don't think many P's ime are good at looking at a video/seminar/anything like that and simply saying "I will/have broaden my span of knowledge
from this" Especially if it's something that they've never been introduced to. They're the first ones to use thier subjective judgement for critisim.

And how can something truly be irrelevant? If it relates...lol...it relates. everything is relative. Just becaue it's not relative to that person...because they don't want to take that particular information in at that particular time...does not mean it's irrelevant lol. <---I am just really trying to understand this "irrelevance" Ti brings up.

Example: Amargith mentioned how we are derailing. <-- I don't understand this concept of derailing in this context. In the" big picture" we are people intrested in learning. Then somewhere in there the next level down is that we are people that like going on the internet (or whatever brings you to your computer). Then we are people that like to talk about the different personality types that have been theorized. And in all of this...we are still trying to learn and gain new knowledge. lol. If we start to find that the place to discuss this specific topic should have a thread( ie differences between NTJ and NTP's...or whatever.) then we can. So I still find it relevant to discuss what about NTJ's, pisses S off or whatever. Cause we are still talking about issues lol and learning. I don't get why all of a sudden people accuse people of derailing on here so much?(obviously not this one in specific) am I way off basis? and wouldn't one of the INTJ's say something if they thought is was derailing? I'm equating irrelevance with derailing...should I not be doing this? <---I'm genuinely looking for direction/feedback.

Add to that that Te tends to be rather absolute when it says that this needs to be done (in order to complete the vision, which is often not mentioned as it is assumed clear to everyone) and that is a definite way to piss off an independent Ne-user, no doubt :laugh:

Meanwhile however, the fact that INTPs feel the need to nitpick at every bit of the logical process, even the parts that are not practical in reality and will actually gain you nothing tangible (and do not work towards a specific goal) piss off an INTJ

(For the record, Im aware that Ti is going to go nuts over the holes that are to be found in my first draft, so consider this a brainstorm session :ninja:)


I think this is 100% correct. I usually leave things out that I assume are clear.(Then Ti trys to pick it apart and point out glitches or something. And I get confused cause now I never know how much I have to spell out lol) I didn't know this was Ne I was "pissing off"(insert whatever word here, "confusing" maybe?) when I do this , interesting. :rly???:
 

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INTJ
But I did have to lol a bit because...

;):shock:What??? Since when are we sticklers for protocol? Have you ever even met an INTP?

While subjective protocols require only scorn, if for instance we're instead talking human or equal rights....

Male INTPs seem to strike up brotherhoods at the earliest opportunity too. They make them like clubs with.... protocols.
 

Coriolis

Si vis pacem, para bellum
Staff member
Joined
Apr 18, 2010
Messages
27,226
MBTI Type
INTJ
Enneagram
5w6
Instinctual Variant
sp/sx
I would say the INTJ need to control is more toxic than the ENTJ one, because the latter are at least aware of it, whereas the INTJ need is a distortion of their self-preservation instinct, and as such, is less under their conscious control and so emerges in more distinctly crazy ways (at least in my experience). If you aren't aware of it, that's not surprising. I suppose that's what makes these threads so valuable..]
I won't deny we have a need to control, but the thing we most want to control is ourselves and our own environment. This is related to the resistance to domination, and probably reinforced in the many of us who are sp first. I want to be in charge of what I do, how I spend my time, how I arrange my life, etc. If someone tries to make me act in accordance with their desires, they will have serious trouble. If they do not act as I think they should, I might say something if I care about them, but basically the choice is theirs -- as are the consequences.

Granted, telling them blatantly that they are wrong and calling them incompetent, especially in public, is likely to get you the Te-boot fueled by Fi righteousness. But ultimately, they care about knowledge, truth and efficiency. Hint that you might be able to expand their knowledge on a topic they care for greatly and they are all over you to share those secrets already, hanging on your lips and giving credit where credit is due
It is pointless to tell us that we are wrong and call us incompetent. If, on the other hand, you can actually show us how we are wrong (evidence, not an empty assertion), or show where our competence is lacking or yours is better, we will listen. If we still disagree, we will have something substantive to disagree on. I have changed my opinion on a dime when presented with facts of which I was unaware, and sound reasoning based on it. I do, after all, want to be right, and will not turn down any legitimate source of information or learning.

In fact, ime, it isnt about who is right or who is wrong, in most situations, but more about who has which priorities...which is what decides your slanted view on the world. Confronting INTJs with empirical facts will definitely make them admit that they were 'wrong', but the importance, best use and priority of those facts is all up for debates.
I would like a dollar for every time I have told someone, "yes, you are right, but we don't care about that because . . . ".

I think this is as much my cultural heritage as anything else.

The best thing an INTJ can do, is learn to laugh at himself and stop fearing mistakes. They get all stiff and paralysed by that fear and it turns them into total bores.
It kind of amazes me that there are people who find their quirks endearing. I suppose it's just as well that there are...
Culture will certainly have a significant influence. I will agree with the highlighted, too, and I am indeed grateful that my INTP does find my qualities "endearing".

As for derailing, discussion of problems that INTJs might have in getting along with another type does not seem off-topic for a "common INTJ issues" thread.
 
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