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Thread: Common INTJ Issues

  1. #71
    Analytical Dreamer Array Coriolis's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Amargith View Post
    < Many wise comments. >
    As usual, all quite accurate. I sometimes think that asking us to be self-critical is about as productive as asking us to say what we feel about something. It is easy to be critical of something I have done. The book I left on the counter stands out even more than the scissors you left, because I always expect more of myself. I see the imperfections in everything I do -- every project at work, every report, every gift to a friend, every performance -- and no matter how positive a reaction they get, I know they could have been better. To be critical of who I am and what I am is much harder. I am too close. It is easier to work backwards from those flaws in the products, but that shows an incomplete picture.

    A few specific comments:

    Quote Originally Posted by Amargith View Post
    There is nothing worse than getting an INTJ to relate to you how he feels about something. It is like trying to get blood from a stone. He'll be able to tell you within a flash what the cost and benefit analysis of any given situation is, and how it will likely turn out but do *NOT* ask him how he feels about something. Unless something causes a visceral reaction, you are likely to get 'meh' as an answer, if they bother to answer at all.
    Moreover, even if I do know how I feel about something, I will often not want to tell, considering the information unimportant or outright irrelevant to the situation. I have been known to say, "how I feel doesn't matter; my position is thus-and-such for the following reasons . . . "

    Quote Originally Posted by Amargith View Post
    So please try to refrain from telling him stories which are familiar, which he has extracted every ounce of information out of already and which have sentimental value to him as he will completely be oblivious to the fact that it is the familiarity he is supposed to enjoy as well as the emotional information attached to said story, and not the facts which he has already assimilated before. Since they are so future-oriented, living in the past, or recalling past anecdotes feels foreign and confusing to them.
    Unfortunately, this is not foreign to my experience. I grew up surrounded by relatives whose conversation overflowed with regurgitations of such stories. It was a big part of why I hated to go visiting. My INTP has a much higher tolerance for this, and will even indulge in it. This made no sense to me until I understood tertiary Si.

    Quote Originally Posted by Amargith View Post
    INTJs are nothing if not adaptable to reality, especially when it comes to obtaining that carrot they want in the end. It also means that their partner, however flawed s/he may be, will never be blamed for who they are in the relationship. The intj knows what he signed on for and who he started dating and will deal with the obstacles along the way in their usual confident way.
    We also know that we can be difficult to live with. I for one appreciate anyone willing and able to put up with my flaws and ideosyncrasies.

    Quote Originally Posted by Amargith View Post
    one can motivate them to actually act silly themselves given enough encouragement. In time, they come to appreciate people who provide release for this side of them very much. Until they discover this part of themselves and come to terms with it however, criticism and efficiency will be definite stumbling blocks when interacting with others.
    Someone who can do this is worth his/her weight in gold.

    Quote Originally Posted by Amargith View Post
    With this comes the fact that if an INTJ takes the time to initiate a interaction with you, there is a reason for it. Either you have information they want/need, you are essential to getting on of their missions to work, or....they actually like you as a person and value you for what you in general can contribute to their lives. The latter is quite rare and makes me smile every time
    Sometimes an INTJ is interested in you for all three reasons. The first two do not preclude the third.


    Quote Originally Posted by Amargith View Post
    They cannot help to notice that one disorganised thing. Often, when you yell at them, they seem to realise that appreciation for your hard work was the better first response and will try to make amends as they *DO* appreciate the time and effort it took you. It is just not their first priority
    It helps to keep in mind that their ability to notice what is off in a situation is what makes them so talented at what they do in life, usually..and that it is one of the reason s you love them, especially when trouble comes knocking.
    Guilty as charged. And yes, this is a very useful quality in my line of work.

    Quote Originally Posted by Amargith View Post
    Most INTJs prefer to be alone and have been taught by life that if you want something done right...you have got to do it yourself. Self-reliant as they are, people and social interaction kind of takes a back seat. This also means that they are completely oblivious to what social protocol entails. For them, when they visit you at your parents house, it is perfectly acceptable that your parents do not approve of him, especially when he overstays his welcome. Pleasing others they have no interest in isn't really on their to-do list, even if it could be socially advantageous (they grow into this eventually though, but in a very calculated way *lol*). He is there to see you, and as long as you are happy to see him..the mission is complete (and he will only leave at your urging). This also means that concepts such as bringing soup to those that are sick (unless they indicate they need help or are an extension of themselves, aka his partner/kids), worrying about how others will respond to his actions (unless they will pose a logistical problem which will cost him more energy), doubting himself and his capabilities coz others put him down, etc will not bother him. And will bother some others greatly
    I will nitpick a bit here to make a distinction between social protocols and direct material benefit. I don't care about social customs for the most part, and doing what is expected just to preserve harmony or make people like me is more bother than it is worth (cost/benefit fail). I will often do the equivalent of "bringing soup to the sick", however, even if I don't know the person well. If I notice a need and am in a position to help, I will help, especially if I see that no one else is able or available to do so. I don't feel compelled to stay around and chat with the invalid once I'm done, though.

    Quote Originally Posted by Amargith View Post
    While they do not expect the outside world to be careful with their hearts, ime most still yearn to be understood and cared for. They've just come to terms with the fact that the outside world is unlikely to be able to give them that.

    It goes without saying that destroying the contents of the vault is likely to cripple and damage the INTJ severely. Often, it confirms what they feared to be true: other people cannot be depended on or trusted. The only one you can trust is yourself.
    Most people don't understand this, or at least they do not act as if they do. My own mother, for one.
    I've been called a criminal, a terrorist, and a threat to the known universe. But everything you were told is a lie. The truth is, they've taken our freedom, our home, and our future. The time has come for all humanity to take a stand...

  2. #72
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    My isfj friend talks about the only relationship they had that's ever "ended" that an INTJ friend ended. It went a little something like: ISFJ was being a normal mature ISFJ and was a true friend, actually listened, was there for her, empathized/sympathized with her, spent a lot of time with her, "put in the work" as he always does with anyone. The INTJ responded to this by being DEVOTED to him, energy wise. And then the ISFJ has a problem that popular people have...he had to spend time with several other friends and didn't have as much time to spend with the INTJ as he did in the beginning. So her energy dwindled down, I am guessing because she didn't get the feeling that he was putting forth the concern and energy to hang out with her as she was towards him. And sooner or later she was just like...it was fun...but good bye... kinda thing...So is "energy" something that an INTJ deals with being "precious" and do other INTJ's cut people out of thier lives if something like this happens? What does it take to get an INTJ to open up? or spend all their energy on someone?
    "Once the game is over, the Pawn and the King go back into the same box"

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    ^ the problem with is that the INTJ is likely to have far fewer friends and will perceive the sudden disappearance of this friend as a rejection of the friendship or a drifting apart and react accordingly. I can't speak or others but I am a pair bonder. I simply can't have a large (or evem smallish) circle of friends because my preference us to close bond with a select few. I seem incapable if having casual friendships you are either in my inner circle or you are an acquaintance. I don't waste my time hanging out with acquaintances, they are the ones I make eye contact with and have a quick chat when we cross paths, nothing more. My inner circle get a lot from me but I require a reciprocation of that. These are very significant people in my life, not what most people would call friends, more like family.

    Most people never make it to my inner circle. I can sense their level of commitment to the relationship is very low (compared to my expectations) so I leave them as acquaintances and simply make no effort to develop a relationship with them. Its frustrating for some I know, as I don't pick up on their cues for friendship, but they soon lose interest and we go our seperate ways.

  4. #74
    Analytical Dreamer Array Coriolis's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Urarienev View Post
    My isfj friend talks about the only relationship they had that's ever "ended" that an INTJ friend ended. It went a little something like: ISFJ was being a normal mature ISFJ and was a true friend, actually listened, was there for her, empathized/sympathized with her, spent a lot of time with her, "put in the work" as he always does with anyone. The INTJ responded to this by being DEVOTED to him, energy wise. And then the ISFJ has a problem that popular people have...he had to spend time with several other friends and didn't have as much time to spend with the INTJ as he did in the beginning. So her energy dwindled down, I am guessing because she didn't get the feeling that he was putting forth the concern and energy to hang out with her as she was towards him. And sooner or later she was just like...it was fun...but good bye... kinda thing...So is "energy" something that an INTJ deals with being "precious" and do other INTJ's cut people out of thier lives if something like this happens? What does it take to get an INTJ to open up? or spend all their energy on someone?
    I don't know enough to comment on this specific relationship. For me, it is a matter of priorities. I have to feel that I am a priority for my romantic partner, or even a very close friend, and I will make them my priority as well. That doesn't mean we have to spend alot of time together or be thinking of each other every minute. In fact, INTJs are not clingy, and can sustain a relationship with far less contact time than most types. I actually value alone time as much as time with close friends or my SO. We will be there when we need each other, though, and will be each other's focus when we do spend time together. (It may matter here that my primary love language is quality time.)
    I've been called a criminal, a terrorist, and a threat to the known universe. But everything you were told is a lie. The truth is, they've taken our freedom, our home, and our future. The time has come for all humanity to take a stand...

  5. #75
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    Quote Originally Posted by Coriolis View Post
    I don't know enough to comment on this specific relationship. For me, it is a matter of priorities. I have to feel that I am a priority for my romantic partner, or even a very close friend, and I will make them my priority as well. That doesn't mean we have to spend alot of time together or be thinking of each other every minute. In fact, INTJs are not clingy, and can sustain a relationship with far less contact time than most types. I actually value alone time as much as time with close friends or my SO. We will be there when we need each other, though, and will be each other's focus when we do spend time together. (It may matter here that my primary love language is quality time.)
    I think love language always matters with each individual no matter what the type of relationship it is. And I think that maybe the INTJ was getting the feeling that the ISFJ wasn't going to be there for her anymore.

    Quote Originally Posted by WhoCares View Post
    ^ the problem with is that the INTJ is likely to have far fewer friends and will perceive the sudden disappearance of this friend as a rejection of the friendship or a drifting apart and react accordingly. I can't speak or others but I am a pair bonder. I simply can't have a large (or evem smallish) circle of friends because my preference us to close bond with a select few. I seem incapable if having casual friendships you are either in my inner circle or you are an acquaintance. I don't waste my time hanging out with acquaintances, they are the ones I make eye contact with and have a quick chat when we cross paths, nothing more. My inner circle get a lot from me but I require a reciprocation of that. These are very significant people in my life, not what most people would call friends, more like family.

    Most people never make it to my inner circle. I can sense their level of commitment to the relationship is very low (compared to my expectations) so I leave them as acquaintances and simply make no effort to develop a relationship with them. Its frustrating for some I know, as I don't pick up on their cues for friendship, but they soon lose interest and we go our seperate ways.
    Yea this was one of the things that the ISFJ was saying, that the INTJ's inner circle was small and she only could really handle one at a time. I was just kind of shocked that if one has someone in their inner circle, one would cut them out so quickly. I always found that as a sensor thing really...stubbornness or something. Not sure what you would call it. That's why I am putting so much emphasis on energy. Is it too much energy to waste on someone or something like that?
    "Once the game is over, the Pawn and the King go back into the same box"

    Freedom isn't free.
    "Freedom is the right to tell people what they do not want to hear." ~ Orwell
    I'm that person that embodies pretty much everything that you hate. Might as well get used to it.
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    Analytical Dreamer Array Coriolis's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Urarienev View Post
    Yea this was one of the things that the ISFJ was saying, that the INTJ's inner circle was small and she only could really handle one at a time. I was just kind of shocked that if one has someone in their inner circle, one would cut them out so quickly. I always found that as a sensor thing really...stubbornness or something. Not sure what you would call it. That's why I am putting so much emphasis on energy. Is it too much energy to waste on someone or something like that?
    Given how few relationships most INTJS have compared with other types, we probably do invest much more energy into each one, especially a close friend or partner. If we don't feel this commitment is being reciprocated, we may conclude our investment of energy is not worth it. A sort of cost/benefit analysis. A reduction in attention from the other person can also come across as either a reduction in interest, or even a betrayal, depending on how close and committed the relationship was originally. INTJs tend to be decisive and rather ruthless when it comes to terminating relationships: either it is worth having one with someone, or it is not. Much of this is driven by Fi considerations that the INTJ might not even be aware of.
    I've been called a criminal, a terrorist, and a threat to the known universe. But everything you were told is a lie. The truth is, they've taken our freedom, our home, and our future. The time has come for all humanity to take a stand...

  7. #77
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    Very simply, it hurts to be unimportant to someone, I spare myself hurt wherever possible and that is the reason why someone will be thrust from my inner circle. I can shug off hurt from strangers but not from someone close to me. When I cast out my ex it was quick and ruthless with no looking back. I have to staunch that wound as quickly as possible.

    I had two ENFP acquaintances, one was quickly rejected for being an attention whore, the other is a soulmate. We rarely see each other but when we do it is pure [platonic] love.

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    sublimation of their sex drive into intellectual energy
    For all that we have done, as a civilization, as individuals, the universe is not stable, and nor is any single thing within it. Stars consume themselves, the universe itself rushes apart, and we ourselves are composed of matter in constant flux. Colonies of cells in temporary alliance, replicating and decaying and housed within, an incandescent cloud of electrical impulses. This is reality, this is self knowledge, and the perception of it will, of course, make you dizzy.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Urarienev View Post
    My isfj friend talks about the only relationship they had that's ever "ended" that an INTJ friend ended. It went a little something like: ISFJ was being a normal mature ISFJ and was a true friend, actually listened, was there for her, empathized/sympathized with her, spent a lot of time with her, "put in the work" as he always does with anyone. The INTJ responded to this by being DEVOTED to him, energy wise. And then the ISFJ has a problem that popular people have...he had to spend time with several other friends and didn't have as much time to spend with the INTJ as he did in the beginning. So her energy dwindled down, I am guessing because she didn't get the feeling that he was putting forth the concern and energy to hang out with her as she was towards him. And sooner or later she was just like...it was fun...but good bye... kinda thing...So is "energy" something that an INTJ deals with being "precious" and do other INTJ's cut people out of thier lives if something like this happens? What does it take to get an INTJ to open up? or spend all their energy on someone?
    I think I can help with this concept of energy... This is based on my own perception but as far as I can relate to INTJ descriptions, I think this should be applicable in general as well.

    When you find someone you (as INTJ, a very independent person) really want to be friends (or more) with, you want to offer the best you have. You want to get to know that other person to really connect with him/her. Personal relationships are, however, something INTJ are not normally tuned to, and there for, they are naturally far from being experts or even good at many things that come so naturally to those for whom connecting with people is an essential part of life. On the other hand, INTJ will be very willing to learn anything that is required for him/her to achieve something he/she really wants and they are also capable if not even naturally drawn to putting big an effort on such learning.

    Consequently, building a relationship, be it close friendship or more, makes an INTJ use a lot of energy on getting to know the other person and to learn how to best interact with him/her. INTJ will not save energy as long as he/she is getting what he/she wants for that energy but if he/she feels that the other person is not committing enough to make the INTJ's effort worth the energy spent, the INTJ is likely to let go of hopes for a relationship that would mean more than just random acquaintance. Being dropped from "friend status" to "acquaintance status" by an INTJ just could be perceived as being cut out by a non-INTJ.

    I wonder if this could be compared to an extroverted, people-oriented person trying to do scientific research requiring a lot of concentration and time alone
    INTJ, HSP, 1w9 or tritype 154, sx/sp

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    Quote Originally Posted by gandalf View Post
    I think I can help with this concept of energy... This is based on my own perception but as far as I can relate to INTJ descriptions, I think this should be applicable in general as well.

    When you find someone you (as INTJ, a very independent person) really want to be friends (or more) with, you want to offer the best you have. You want to get to know that other person to really connect with him/her. Personal relationships are, however, something INTJ are not normally tuned to, and there for, they are naturally far from being experts or even good at many things that come so naturally to those for whom connecting with people is an essential part of life. On the other hand, INTJ will be very willing to learn anything that is required for him/her to achieve something he/she really wants and they are also capable if not even naturally drawn to putting big an effort on such learning.

    Consequently, building a relationship, be it close friendship or more, makes an INTJ use a lot of energy on getting to know the other person and to learn how to best interact with him/her. INTJ will not save energy as long as he/she is getting what he/she wants for that energy but if he/she feels that the other person is not committing enough to make the INTJ's effort worth the energy spent, the INTJ is likely to let go of hopes for a relationship that would mean more than just random acquaintance. Being dropped from "friend status" to "acquaintance status" by an INTJ just could be perceived as being cut out by a non-INTJ.

    I wonder if this could be compared to an extroverted, people-oriented person trying to do scientific research requiring a lot of concentration and time alone
    hmmm...

    The reason why I brought up this story in the first place is because I place ALOT of emphasis on energy...energy in the same way that you're talkin about...getting to know the person...and do whatever it takes to communicate that I love them as a friend or otherwise. So I definately get WHY INTJ's do it...I just don't get HOW? The huge difference I think is that INTJ's have the ability to "drop" someone down a level or "let go" of a person easier...Maybe what I'm getting at is....Is it as easy as I think, for INTJ's to do this? or is it like an all or nothing thing...so it's easy?

    I personally hate when I put way more energy into someone or even something that I'm doing for someone, and the other person does not even TRY to reciprocate... and it turns into this endless cycle of: Me putting in too much effort, getting hurt cause the other person doesn't do the same, but then I will do it all over again...as if I did not learn the first time....<---I just wanna know if there's a function I can develop that can help me to STOP doing this. Is it Ni? Cause I repeat history too many times...It's like I have to wait for the person to hurt me to the point of no return....why is an INTJ's "endurance" for this type of stuff different? Do you think it's purely introversion vs. extraversion?
    "Once the game is over, the Pawn and the King go back into the same box"

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