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  1. #61
    ¤ Zarathustra's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Amargith View Post
    Mmm. Maybe i shouldve refrained from commenting afterall
    No, your post was actually really good.

    I'm just teasing.

    I'll provide my full breakdown later, but what I'll say at the moment is that you pointed to a lot of issues that are worthwhile and true, in general, for probably almost all INTJs. The problem is, each of us will, at any moment in our lives, have dealt with these issues in our own ways, and some of us will have dealt with some of them more effectively than others, and some of us will have dealt with some of them less effectively than others. So while you've jabbed your little pencil into the essence of INTJness some 10x in your post above, while that initial thrust is indeed poking at something real, it's the nuance and subtlety that comes with each INTJ's reaction to that issue that produces millions of little tendrils spreading outward from the point where your pencil tip found rest, and it's understanding which of those tendrils represent each one of us for each one of those issues that will lead to genuine understanding of each of us as an individual.

    As such, I can't really hate on it, as the initial thrust did indeed point to something real, and even going that far will enable someone trying to understand INTJs to have a better grasp of us, but only if they realize that the description does not define us, as each of us has our own individual reaction to those issues (although, there may be general groupings of reactions for significant portions of us [and identifying those could lead to an even better understanding of us as a whole {although, that would be a hell of a project...}]), but can serve to point to issues that most of us have likely dealt with, in some way, in our lives, and which we have reacted to and grown from in whichever way each of us, as an individual, has.
    The Justice Fighter

    INTJ - 6w5 8dw 3w4 sx/so - Neutral Good

    "I trust what you are doing though…I just see it a little differently.
    I don’t see it as you stepping away from the fire. I see it as the fire directing your course.
    No matter how airy or earthy or watery you become... to many of us you will always be...a super nova."

    "Behind these gates of seeming warmth sits, loosely chained, a fierce attack dog. Perhaps not crazy, but dangerous"

    The Aggressive 6
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  2. #62
    ¤ Zarathustra's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Amargith View Post
    Omg. This is the scissors-thing all over again
    Don't be fooled, people:

    The Justice Fighter

    INTJ - 6w5 8dw 3w4 sx/so - Neutral Good

    "I trust what you are doing though…I just see it a little differently.
    I don’t see it as you stepping away from the fire. I see it as the fire directing your course.
    No matter how airy or earthy or watery you become... to many of us you will always be...a super nova."

    "Behind these gates of seeming warmth sits, loosely chained, a fierce attack dog. Perhaps not crazy, but dangerous"

    The Aggressive 6
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  3. #63
    Freyja's Amargith's Avatar
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    Hehe. I have to admit that you guys demonstrate tertiary Fi's need to be unique quite well

    Of course I understand that this will vary from INTJ to INTJ and recognise your point. But that is always going to be the case when you generalise information, even when that information pertains to someone's uniqueness. And, as you'll notice in the original post, I noted that I wasn't nearly done, but I wanted to make sure first that this went over well. Far be it from me to actually prod at shit that is private and tender in public. I just figured I might be able to help the OP out a bit to jumpstart the topic again, coz it would be interesting (to me) to see INTJs analyse themselves the way ENFPs and INFJs did in their respective threads. Otoh, I do recognise that this might not be something that INTJs are really inclined to focus on, let alone do so in public.
    ★ڿڰۣ✿ℒoѵℯ✿ڿڰۣ★





    "Be careful what you believe, because that is the world you'll create - Cassie Nightingale

  4. #64
    ¤ Zarathustra's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Amargith View Post
    Hehe. I have to admit that you guys demonstrate tertiary Fi's need to be unique quite well
    The Justice Fighter

    INTJ - 6w5 8dw 3w4 sx/so - Neutral Good

    "I trust what you are doing though…I just see it a little differently.
    I don’t see it as you stepping away from the fire. I see it as the fire directing your course.
    No matter how airy or earthy or watery you become... to many of us you will always be...a super nova."

    "Behind these gates of seeming warmth sits, loosely chained, a fierce attack dog. Perhaps not crazy, but dangerous"

    The Aggressive 6
    Debator


  5. #65
    philosopher wood nymph greenfairy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Riva View Post
    Have found that INTJs are REALLY good at reading intentions of others' actions but aren't good at READING the feelings of others. (Am I being rude etc?) A common INTJ issue this is? Not sure. I find them generally to be concerned not to hurt others intentionally though.

    Also as Nico the Visigoth said, this seems to be a standard INTJ description thread.

    Maybe @highlander you should ask other INTJs to include issues they believe they posses which they have realized?
    I identify with INTJ a lot, including the issues in the OP; but I'm the opposite of this. Ne/Ni about 50-50, go figure.

  6. #66
    Professional Trickster Esoteric Wench's Avatar
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    I was inspired by @Amargith's previous post in which she shared her own observations of INTJs' common issues from an outsider's point of view to write my own treatise on the matter.*

    I do this because I really care about the INTJs in my life and was excited to see when @highlander created this thread. However so far, this thread hasn't panned out to be very interesting or insightful for me. In fact, Amargith's post is one of the most interesting and insightful of the entire thread... and she's not even an INTJ. Come on INTJs! Where is all that INTJ ruthless self-analysis that I'm so used to expecting?

    So here's my 10 cents of the top two INTJ issues.** Do with it as you will... Comments, kudos, and criticisms are welcome!

    INTJ's Top 4 Cognitive Functions (in order) = Ni > Te > Fi > Se

    Dismissing Information Prematurely. This is the number one problem that an INTJ can get into, in my opinion. Ni (an INTJ's dominant function) is sort of like a framework for understanding. Everytime an INTJ takes in new information, they have to reshape and remold their Ni with the new information. This is a very labor intensive process and it's easy for an INTJ to feel overwhelmed by all the information they must consider. Thus, it should be no surprise that it's very tempting for INTJs to sometimes take short cuts in processing new, incoming information. This shortcut usually takes the form of dismissing new information very quickly using their Te if they think they've processed similar information previously.

    While this use of Te saves the INTJ the energy of having to rework their Ni framework of understanding, it also means that an INTJ sometimes dismisses things too quickly. They can come across as too rigid and overly opinionated. Instead of using Te to reject ideas, a better way to use Te would be to analyze one's Ni to see if it reflects a holistic understanding of the situation that takes all facts into account.

    Not Caring How They Come Across to Others. Te is great at finding fault outside oneself, but not so good at applying its judgment inward. This means that an INTJ who is not mastered his use of Te will have unreasonable expectations of others... and will do very little to meet other's expectations of the INTJ. As per the Personality Page, "These issues stem primarily from the common INTJ habit of using Extraverted Thinking to find fault externally, rather than internally, and therefore diminish the importance of the external world, and increase the importance of the INTJ's own internal world." INTJ have a very rich internal world, but they need to learn to use their Te to extravert themselves which includes taking into considerations the needs and expectations of others in the INTJ's world.




    *What authority do I have to speak on INTJ issues? Well, I'd like to think that above and beyond the renowned ENFP/INTJ good chemistry that I've personally experienced (yeah, I generally adore every INTJ I know), my lifelong interactions with INTJs has given me a little insight into this type: I've lived with an INTJ (for six years we dated/lived together). I was parented by an INTJ for 38 years (my mother was an INTJ). And, one of my dearest friends is an INTJ.
    ** The basic idea of this post was inspired by the Personality Page's INTJ Personal Growth page which I found to be very helpful and accurate. You can read the entire thing by clicking here.
    ENFP with kick*ss Te | 7w8 so | ♀

  7. #67
    philosopher wood nymph greenfairy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mane View Post
    i am actually very biased towards INTJs, my father and a few of my best friends growing up where INTJs... still, i'll try, and please keep in mind that this is based on the INTJs closest to me and not derived form known INTJ cognitive tendencies, and thus might not be applicable as generalizations.

    • can be very devoted to their passions while being very negligent with aspects of themselves, their health and their own well being, which is a big problem considering how much pressure they can sometimes take out of situations. i wonder if a higher percentage of INTJs die of heart atacks and high blood pressure...
    • can be exceptionally dodgy after making mistakes in their conclusions and reframe it as - and this is a notion that i have noticed repeatedly and still find amusing - "the knowledge's fault" - the knowledge they got of the situation was vague or a few pieces of it where distracting, the framing wasn't clear, it wasn't built up in their minds in an obvious enough way, the needed presumption wasn't on the wall, etc'.
    • humor is often limited to "secret languages" with those closed to them. i think this might be a way INTJs use to strenghen bonds but perhaps unaware of the social affect, when an INTJ jokes with me on something that only i would get but they aren't aware of how rude it would be to everyone else if i'd let myself laugh out loud
    I don't understand how this would be rude. But then, I don't understand why a lot of things are rude. I laugh about all kinds of things all the time. My sister and I joke about things only we are aware of, like 85% of the time we interact.

  8. #68
    ¤ Zarathustra's Avatar
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    *has lost all desire to offer his addendum to Amargith's notes*
    Last edited by Zarathustra; 09-29-2012 at 10:43 AM.
    The Justice Fighter

    INTJ - 6w5 8dw 3w4 sx/so - Neutral Good

    "I trust what you are doing though…I just see it a little differently.
    I don’t see it as you stepping away from the fire. I see it as the fire directing your course.
    No matter how airy or earthy or watery you become... to many of us you will always be...a super nova."

    "Behind these gates of seeming warmth sits, loosely chained, a fierce attack dog. Perhaps not crazy, but dangerous"

    The Aggressive 6
    Debator


  9. #69
    Filthy Apes! Kalach's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Esoteric Wench View Post
    Dismissing Information Prematurely. This is the number one problem that an INTJ can get into, in my opinion. Ni (an INTJ's dominant function) is sort of like a framework for understanding. Everytime an INTJ takes in new information, they have to reshape and remold their Ni with the new information. This is a very labor intensive process and it's easy for an INTJ to feel overwhelmed by all the information they must consider. Thus, it should be no surprise that it's very tempting for INTJs to sometimes take short cuts in processing new, incoming information. This shortcut usually takes the form of dismissing new information very quickly using their Te if they think they've processed similar information previously.

    While this use of Te saves the INTJ the energy of having to rework their Ni framework of understanding, it also means that an INTJ sometimes dismisses things too quickly. They can come across as too rigid and overly opinionated. Instead of using Te to reject ideas, a better way to use Te would be to analyze one's Ni to see if it reflects a holistic understanding of the situation that takes all facts into account.
    *dismiss*

    Wave information with potential in front of the INTJ and see how fast he latches onto it, bearing in mind that what counts as potential varies from INTJ to INTJ and might also be wildly different to what other people count as interesting.

    Not Caring How They Come Across to Others. Te is great at finding fault outside oneself, but not so good at applying its judgment inward. This means that an INTJ who is not mastered his use of Te will have unreasonable expectations of others... and will do very little to meet other's expectations of the INTJ. As per the Personality Page, "These issues stem primarily from the common INTJ habit of using Extraverted Thinking to find fault externally, rather than internally, and therefore diminish the importance of the external world, and increase the importance of the INTJ's own internal world." INTJ have a very rich internal world, but they need to learn to use their Te to extravert themselves which includes taking into considerations the needs and expectations of others in the INTJ's world.
    I found a fault. Not caring how I come across is different from not checking to see if I'm being hypocritical in my judgment of others.
    Bellison uncorked a flood of horrible profanity, which, translated, meant, "This is extremely unusual."

    Boy meets Grr

  10. #70
    Administrator highlander's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Esoteric Wench View Post
    I was inspired by @Amargith's previous post in which she shared her own observations of INTJs' common issues from an outsider's point of view to write my own treatise on the matter.*

    I do this because I really care about the INTJs in my life and was excited to see when @highlander created this thread. However so far, this thread hasn't panned out to be very interesting or insightful for me. In fact, Amargith's post is one of the most interesting and insightful of the entire thread... and she's not even an INTJ. Come on INTJs! Where is all that INTJ ruthless self-analysis that I'm so used to expecting?

    *What authority do I have to speak on INTJ issues? Well, I'd like to think that above and beyond the renowned ENFP/INTJ good chemistry that I've personally experienced (yeah, I generally adore every INTJ I know), my lifelong interactions with INTJs has given me a little insight into this type: I've lived with an INTJ (for six years we dated/lived together). I was parented by an INTJ for 38 years (my mother was an INTJ). And, one of my dearest friends is an INTJ.
    ** The basic idea of this post was inspired by the Personality Page's INTJ Personal Growth page which I found to be very helpful and accurate. You can read the entire thing by clicking here.
    Understand. @Amargith's post was awesome.

    So what do you want to know?

    Please provide feedback on my Nohari and Johari Window by clicking here: Nohari/Johari

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