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  1. #291
    Senior Member TSDesigner's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by highlander View Post
    A lot more people think they are good at it than actually are. All I know is most people suck at it.
    I took an online emotional IQ test. The challenge was to look at a variety of pictures and guess what the people were feeling.
    I scored 90th percentile on it, which means I did better than 90% of the people who took the test. Not as good as my regular IQ but still very good.

  2. #292
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    Quote Originally Posted by highlander View Post
    15:50 - is this what you mean?

    INFJ's are not good at judging character either. (Inferior function Se) Similar to an INTJ they will sometimes pursue that route precisely because because they are so bad at it. It usually goes something like this. People either ignore their inferior function unless under stress or they become obsessed by it. Not sure if that makes sense. (correction, no one ignores it because they are constantly cycling through it but they don't focus on it and/or the things around it that often)

    ENFP, ESFP, ENTP, ESTP are observation of character oriented in their primary functions. Does that mean you can't be better at it then they are, no...it just means you don't focus on it and it isn't as important to you from birth. It isn't what you develop first. You may overtime choose to really dive deep into it BUT what's interesting is that you will probably still use your strengths and find workarounds and so once again you are not using the same focus as say an ENFP would naturally.

    I will add that what was most interesting about MBTI is that we are so unaware that their is another way to ACTUALLY THINK that it is not just a blind spot but almost impossible to see. I don't know how Jung saw what he saw...mind boggling. I suppose it is almost like spotting a black hole. You look at the things happening around the black hole and realize some force must be present.
    Last edited by andresimon; 10-25-2015 at 12:29 AM. Reason: clarity
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  3. #293
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    A lot of these are stereotypes:

    A lot of issues that INTJs have relate to Ni taking an overly dominant role in their personality. Some examples of this:
    I've been called extremely placid and passive. So I don't understand the "dominant role" thing. if anything I always feel like a third wheel or the type of person people forget is in the room. I believe you're confusing INTJs with ENTJs.

    Don't listen to other perspectives - At times, the INTJ can quickly dismiss things that others might say and have a tendency to come across like they think they are always right. Even if they do listen, they may not come across like they are. The explanation for much of this is that the INTJ can use Te to cut off new information rather than the more productive use of Te, which is to judge their insights against the external world.
    I have seen just about every personality type do this. I'm not sure if this is an INTJ thing at all. This is a people thing.

    If anything INTJs are much more open minded about other perspectives then their own because they see different perspectives as key to understanding an issue. (Understanding how people think about something is good information for us to use when we are analyzing a subject).

    Also...we do not think we are always right. I'm getting tired of this silly stereotype. This seems like more of an SF thing imo. It wouldn't be truthful or rational to believe you were "always right." INTJs are interested in what is true. Why would they believe something that isn't true?

    If they were unhealthy or immature, they may believe this.

    Also, if we aren't listening to you, it's because we are spacing out of daydreaming. Sometimes the outside world is not a very interesting place for us. We have so many thoughts going through our brains all the time that we can't always pay attention to the outside world. Our brains are constantly making connections all the time, with INTJs we are doing it by bringing seemingly unrelated/unconnected things into a discussion.

    It's not that we aren't open minded to what you're saying, it's that our brains cannot hold onto your words.

    Overly critical - INTJs are prone to finding fault in things and situations to an excessive degree. They can tend to blame others for things that go wrong or apply judgement towards others rather than themselves.
    I've learned to stop caring about the workplace as a mechanism. I am not responsible for running it, therefore I am not responsible for when things go wrong. When my managers "mis manage" me, I couldn't care less if the place fell to the ground. I do what you tell me because if I don't, you get mad. I am no longer interested in making the workplace better, I'm interested in money.

    Don't know know how they come across to others - INTJs, especially when young can be pretty oblivious as to how they come across to other people.
    Aren't we all? Youth is the height of self absorption.

    Unrealistic expectations - INTJs can have excessive expectations of others as well as themselves. Nobody measures up.
    Again, I think this applies to everyone.

    Hard time communicating - They can have difficulty communicating what is in their mind to others. Sometimes, they are vague and cannot easily express the reasons for the way they thing.
    The only time I have difficulty communicating is when someone else decides to usurp the conversation. I work in customer service so I've trained myself on how to communicate with people effectively. I have to laugh at those suppose INTJs who say small talk isn't important or that they "don't get it." What is there to take? Someone asks you a question and you answer.

    The one problem I believe you'll find with INTJs and communicating is when they try to repress their feelings. Most INTJs are embarrassed by emotional outbursts and typically hold in their emotions. This can have a negative effect and come out in passive aggressive ways. An INTJ will never tell you when something is wrong or when they feel bad. You will likely not know until the INTJ has fallen over in exhaustion.

    I remember being in kindergarten and feeling like I was going to faint. The teacher specifically told us we were not to talk unless we raised our hand. I remember raising my hand quite fervently trying to get the teacher's attention so that I could go to the nurse. The teacher was busy talking with other students and did not notice me. I eventually passed out, fell on some kid's lap, and woke up in the hospital.

    We want people to guess our feelings, so that we don't have to state them.

    Occasional indecision - Though this is not usually a problem, at times the INTJ can be overwhelmed by all of the different pieces of information, scenarios and sides of an issue making it difficult to reach a decision.
    This can sometimes be a problem, although I don't see how INTJs are more prone to it than any other type. INFPs and ENFPs almost seem crippled by it.

    For INTJs it usually tends to be because we don't have enough information or because there is too much information to make a decision. I think this may be why some of us are not always good at mathematics.
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  4. #294
    Happy Dancer uumlau's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Felix5 View Post
    A lot of these are stereotypes:
    A lot of issues that INTJs have relate to Ni taking an overly dominant role in their personality. Some examples of this:
    I've been called extremely placid and passive. So I don't understand the "dominant role" thing. if anything I always feel like a third wheel or the type of person people forget is in the room. I believe you're confusing INTJs with ENTJs.
    Yeah, this is a funny one. It makes more sense if you think in terms of the internet being full of INxx more than anything else. Compared with INTP, INFP, and INFJ, we INTJs are intellectual bullies who are way too forceful in our discussion of topics. Compared with Te and Fe doms, and type 8 Enneagram, INTJs are quite timid.

    Don't listen to other perspectives - At times, the INTJ can quickly dismiss things that others might say and have a tendency to come across like they think they are always right. Even if they do listen, they may not come across like they are. The explanation for much of this is that the INTJ can use Te to cut off new information rather than the more productive use of Te, which is to judge their insights against the external world.
    I have seen just about every personality type do this. I'm not sure if this is an INTJ thing at all. This is a people thing.
    Indeed.

    If anything INTJs are much more open minded about other perspectives then their own because they see different perspectives as key to understanding an issue. (Understanding how people think about something is good information for us to use when we are analyzing a subject).

    Also...we do not think we are always right. I'm getting tired of this silly stereotype. This seems like more of an SF thing imo. It wouldn't be truthful or rational to believe you were "always right." INTJs are interested in what is true. Why would they believe something that isn't true?

    If they were unhealthy or immature, they may believe this.

    Also, if we aren't listening to you, it's because we are spacing out of daydreaming. Sometimes the outside world is not a very interesting place for us. We have so many thoughts going through our brains all the time that we can't always pay attention to the outside world. Our brains are constantly making connections all the time, with INTJs we are doing it by bringing seemingly unrelated/unconnected things into a discussion.

    It's not that we aren't open minded to what you're saying, it's that our brains cannot hold onto your words.
    What a lot of people describe as INTJs “not listening” is more aptly described as “disagreeing.” Their problem isn’t that you aren’t listening, their problem is that you don’t agree with them, and that makes them FEEL like you aren’t listening, because of course if you were really listening, then you’d agree. Or at least not keep on telling them that they’re wrong. The INxP thinks you're wrong "because Ne", and the INFJ think's you're wrong "because Fe", and you keep on "ignoring" all their Ne and/or Fe points.



    Overly critical - INTJs are prone to finding fault in things and situations to an excessive degree. They can tend to blame others for things that go wrong or apply judgement towards others rather than themselves.
    I've learned to stop caring about the workplace as a mechanism. I am not responsible for running it, therefore I am not responsible for when things go wrong. When my managers "mis manage" me, I couldn't care less if the place fell to the ground. I do what you tell me because if I don't, you get mad. I am no longer interested in making the workplace better, I'm interested in money.
    This is totally the INxx side of things, here. INxP types and INFJs tend to hear a lot of “blame” in typical INTJ remarks. The crosstalk going on here is that more often than not because the INTJ said, “You did that wrong,” (subject-verb-predicate) instead of, “That was done wrong,” (shit happens, and it would be rude to mention who did it, if anyone). In INTJ terms, in order to solve problems, you have to not only speak of the problems, you have to address their causes. Problems without causes (in order to avoid blame) will occur again. Because shit happens. Also note that INTJ "blame" isn't personal: an INTJ isn't saying "You are a bad person" because you caused a problem. That's actually a tough thing for the other INxx types to believe. To them, and to most non-xNTJs, blame is very personal.



    Don't know know how they come across to others - INTJs, especially when young can be pretty oblivious as to how they come across to other people.
    Aren't we all? Youth is the height of self absorption.
    Again, very apt. I will say, however, that INTJs will appear to be much more self-absorbed in this regard because they don’t connect to the very common Si (INxP tertiary) and Fe (INFJ auxiliary, INTP inferior) patterns that most of society uses. This also maps to “not listening” and “dismissing what others have to say”, because we INTJs have to figure out how things work from first principles, as society doesn’t use our patterns of thinking. An INTJ hears the Si and Fe patterns as "just so" stories. (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Just_So_Stories) To the INTJ mind, at first we accept those explanations as children, but we learn over time that they don't work for us. We then start figuring out how the world works in our terms of thinking, which tends to remove the Si and Fe patterns of reasoning and replaces them with Ni and Te patterns of reasoning. Having done so, we then learn that very few people understand what we've figured out, in part because it is too abstract to fit into Si patterns, and in part because it is too strictly objective to fit into Fe patterns.

    Unrealistic expectations - INTJs can have excessive expectations of others as well as themselves. Nobody measures up.
    Again, I think this applies to everyone.
    It's as if SJs and Enneagram type 1s don't even exist ...

    Imagine my perspective on this as an INTJ 9.


    Hard time communicating - They can have difficulty communicating what is in their mind to others. Sometimes, they are vague and cannot easily express the reasons for the way they thing.
    The only time I have difficulty communicating is when someone else decides to usurp the conversation. I work in customer service so I've trained myself on how to communicate with people effectively. I have to laugh at those suppose INTJs who say small talk isn't important or that they "don't get it." What is there to take? Someone asks you a question and you answer.

    The one problem I believe you'll find with INTJs and communicating is when they try to repress their feelings. Most INTJs are embarrassed by emotional outbursts and typically hold in their emotions. This can have a negative effect and come out in passive aggressive ways. An INTJ will never tell you when something is wrong or when they feel bad. You will likely not know until the INTJ has fallen over in exhaustion.

    I remember being in kindergarten and feeling like I was going to faint. The teacher specifically told us we were not to talk unless we raised our hand. I remember raising my hand quite fervently trying to get the teacher's attention so that I could go to the nurse. The teacher was busy talking with other students and did not notice me. I eventually passed out, fell on some kid's lap, and woke up in the hospital.

    We want people to guess our feelings, so that we don't have to state them.
    Wise words. Yes.

    One thing that I've come to observe as common among very young INTJs, they're so very eager to learn that they tend to take the words of adults very literally, but in a way that makes sense to an INTJ mind, not - say - an ISFJ or ESFP mind. The latter two types would have spoken up, because the FEELING would be more important than the instruction to not talk.

    I will note, however, that wanting other people to guess our feelings is more of a Te thing than an INTJ thing. Te doms (with either Si or Ni aux) have great difficulty expressing how they feel.
    An argument is two people sharing their ignorance.

    A discussion is two people sharing their understanding, even when they disagree.
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  5. #295
    Analytical Dreamer Coriolis's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by uumlau View Post
    What a lot of people describe as INTJs “not listening” is more aptly described as “disagreeing.” Their problem isn’t that you aren’t listening, their problem is that you don’t agree with them, and that makes them FEEL like you aren’t listening, because of course if you were really listening, then you’d agree. Or at least not keep on telling them that they’re wrong. The INxP thinks you're wrong "because Ne", and the INFJ think's you're wrong "because Fe", and you keep on "ignoring" all their Ne and/or Fe points.
    I get both reactions from my INTP, frequently. It has always surprised me as I thought that he, as a fellow NT, would approach things more objectively and with greater detachment than to take personally a factual criticism of something he did. I have started pointing out on the first subject that yes, I was listening and did hear him, I just don't agree. It doesn't seem to do any good, though.
    I've been called a criminal, a terrorist, and a threat to the known universe. But everything you were told is a lie. The truth is, they've taken our freedom, our home, and our future. The time has come for all humanity to take a stand...
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  6. #296
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    Yeahthis is a funny oneIt makes more sense if you think in terms of the internet being full of INxx more than anything else. Compared with INTPINFP, and INFJwe INTJs are intellectual bullies who are way too forceful in our discussion of topicsCompared with Te and Fe doms, and type 8 EnneagramINTJs are quite timid
    Well lol, there are asshles everywhere. I will say, that it is easier to be forceful through a computer screen. Imagine the effect on someone who has been physically and emotionally dominated in the outside world for most of their lives. The internet is their kingdom. I tend to think it's a specific type of INTJ that is responsible for this, but there are plenty of other types guilty of this. Lots of ISFPs, some immature INTPs, ENTPs, ENTJs, plenty of SF types who are easily triggered into an argument.

    What a lot of people describe as INTJs “not listening” is more aptly described as “disagreeing.” Their problem isn’t that you aren’t listening, their problem is that you don’t agree with them, and that makes them FEEL like you aren’t listening, because of course if you were really listening, then you’d agree. Or at least not keep on telling them that they’re wrong. The INxP thinks you're wrong "because Ne", and the INFJ think's you're wrong "because Fe", and you keep on "ignoring" all their Ne and/or Fe points.
    Not agreeing with someone isn't a conflict though and I think most people tend to see hostility as aggression. If conflict is aggression, then why would one of the most introverted types be seen as the most hostile? Perhaps we are being misrepresented by other types.

    I see a lot of this with various types, usually J types, but certainly other types trying to mimic that. I actually find that the worst culprits are those that aren't Js and are trying to put on a facade that they are. Mr Tough Guy in the youtube comment section, for example. A healthy and reasonably intelligent INTJ should understand the importance of tact, the shame of looking like a fool, and patience.

    Again, I'm sure many unhealthy INTJs don't quite understand these things and have started plenty of pointless arguments with people. But to stereotype that it is an "INTJ problem," is just silly. This is a human problem.

    Again, very apt. I will say, however, that INTJs will appear to be much more self-absorbed in this regard because they don’t connect to the very common Si (INxP tertiary) and Fe (INFJ auxiliary, INTP inferior) patterns that most of society uses.
    Appear and actually being are certainly two seperate things. This is in the eye of the beholder. An INTJ would see a pompous ESFP bragging about their conquests as extremely self absorbed. So who is the most self absorbed here? Neither because they misunderstand each other? Both because they are both self absorbed? The ESFP? The INTJ? I believe an outsider would see both as possessing these qualities, but I imagine the braggart more so.

    This also maps to “not listening” and “dismissing what others have to say”, because we INTJs have to figure out how things work from first principles, as society doesn’t use our patterns of thinking.
    Interesting, I'd like to hear more of this.

    An INTJ hears the Si and Fe patterns as "just so" stories. (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Just_So_Stories) To the INTJ mind, at first we accept those explanations as children, but we learn over time that they don't work for us. We then start figuring out how the world works in our terms of thinking, which tends to remove the Si and Fe patterns of reasoning and replaces them with Ni and Te patterns of reasoning. Having done so, we then learn that very few people understand what we've figured out, in part because it is too abstract to fit into Si patterns, and in part because it is too strictly objective to fit into Fe patterns.
    This is true, but I don't think this necessarily leads to conflict. I see it as leading more to introversion and possibly shutting one's self away.

  7. #297
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    Quote Originally Posted by uumlau View Post
    I will note, however, that wanting other people to guess our feelings is more of a Te thing than an INTJ thing. Te doms (with either Si or Ni aux) have great difficulty expressing how they feel.
    Most of the time I just want to get over my feelings. Even better if no one else is involved.

    It's very unhealthy.

  8. #298
    Member Hetaira's Avatar
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    I find IRL INTJ's often allow themselves to be taken advantage of financially. They just keep staying with the person until the blatant disrespect allows them to stay no longer.

    Furthermore, they are detailed people. Quite eloquent, but struggle with being concise and to the point.

    Physically...they seem to be a bit lean in the chest, shoulder and bicep muscles. They do not have the upper body mass of the EST/ENT's have.

  9. #299
    Senior Member ceecee's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hetaira View Post
    I find IRL INTJ's often allow themselves to be taken advantage of financially. They just keep staying with the person until the blatant disrespect allows them to stay no longer.
    I have only seen this in young INTJ's. Never in more mature ones.

    Furthermore, they are detailed people. Quite eloquent, but struggle with being concise and to the point.
    I can't disagree with this.

    Physically...they seem to be a bit lean in the chest, shoulder and bicep muscles. They do not have the upper body mass of the EST/ENT's have.
    I'm a woman but I'm in good shape and have good upper body strength. Male INTJ's...yes I have observed what you're describing.
    I like to rock n' roll all night and *part* of every day. I usually have errands... I can only rock from like 1-3.
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  10. #300
    Member Rebeka's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rasofy View Post
    I guess he wanted a sticky thread.
    Within a year, he'll be called a visionary.
    Legions of confused ENFPs will thank him for all the gathered knowledge.
    Legions of INTJs will deny that they fit the description.
    But, for now, we can call the thread useless/dumb.
    hahaha! ENFP dating an INTJ and looking for behaviour responses here! LOL XD

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