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  1. #281
    Administrator highlander's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by andresimon View Post
    Be wary and skeptical on both ends. You can misjudge the positive as well as the negative intentions of people. An INTJ will tend to subscribe to generalizing ALL human behavior, creating a top down human, this is also a fallacy.
    I have found over the years that attempting to judge intentions is a fools errand. What matters is behavior and people are very complex, not even knowing why they do what they do. This being said, trust is one of the most important things in the entire area of human relations. I will err on the side of trusting that people generally do things for what they believe to be good reasons. As a result of this, I have tended to judge in the positive light and be let down a lot more than judging in a negative light.

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  2. #282
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    Quote Originally Posted by highlander View Post
    I have found over the years that attempting to judge intentions is a fools errand. What matters is behavior and people are very complex, not even knowing why they do what they do. This being said, trust is one of the most important things in the entire area of human relations. I will err on the side of trusting that people generally do things for what they believe to be good reasons. As a result of this, I have tended to judge in the positive light and be let down a lot more than judging in a negative light.
    It would feel like a fools errand to you because honestly you would not be very good at it. Not because you cannot be but more so because you probably don't focus on the intentions of specific individuals or even a "theoretical human." Don't take this negatively, but some types are very good at judging and picking up on peoples intentions.

  3. #283
    Administrator highlander's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by andresimon View Post
    It would feel like a fools errand to you because honestly you would not be very good at it. Not because you cannot be but more so because you probably don't focus on the intentions of specific individuals or even a "theoretical human." Don't take this negatively, but some types are very good at judging and picking up on peoples intentions.
    A lot more people think they are good at it than actually are. All I know is most people suck at it.

    Your assertion right here is a good example. I don't think much about theoretical humans. I focus on individuals. Personality frameworks are merely an imprecise tool to allow you to make occasional guesses to help provide insight into those specific people.

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  4. #284
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    Quote Originally Posted by highlander View Post
    A lot more people think they are good at it than actually are. All I know is most people suck at it.

    Your assertion right here is a good example. I don't think much about theoretical humans. I focus on individuals. Personality frameworks are merely an imprecise tool to allow you to make occasional guesses to help provide insight into those specific people.
    No You don't get it. I didn't say you do one or the other. I said neither is that important to you. You do focus on one or the other though first when it comes to people observations but I'm not diving into details here. I know INTJ's focus on people last. When you try and apply big picture principles to individual people, you probably end up being surprised, as you mentioned before. This is the exact problems most INTJ's experience when it comes to people and not just others but understanding themselves as well.

    The bottom line is, most people suck at most things, but specific type specialize at specific things. You are great at big picture principles via Ni. Most types would suck at that, you don't. Just because you are not good at it doesn't mean everyone else also isn't. The things that are easy for you are very difficult for others and vise versa would also be true.

  5. #285
    Administrator highlander's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by andresimon View Post
    No You don't get it. I didn't say you do one or the other. I said neither is that important to you. You do focus on one or the other though first when it comes to people observations but I'm not diving into details here. I know INTJ's focus on people last. When you try and apply big picture principles to individual people, you probably end up being surprised, as you mentioned before. This is the exact problems most INTJ's experience when it comes to people and not just others but understanding themselves as well.

    The bottom line is, most people suck at most things, but specific type specialize at specific things. You are great at big picture principles via Ni. Most types would suck at that, you don't. Just because you are not good at it doesn't mean everyone else also isn't. The things that are easy for you are very difficult for others and vise versa would also be true.
    Oh right. I misread your post. You didn't say that.

    I don't focus on intentions of people as you said because I have found that my perceptions of such things to be so unreliable as to be fairly worthless.

    Maybe I should explain it a different way though. I actually DO think quite a bit about where other people are coming from. I try to understand how a particular person is thinking or feeling during interpersonal interactions. I pay a lot of attention to facial expressions, body language, how they act, talk, etc. This is part of an effort to understand them. I hugely focus on that - how they are thinking, feeling, etc. I am not sure why I do this but I am compelled to expend a fair amount of energy on it. For example, during an important meeting with a client, I will form impressions about how they were reacting and guess what they were thinking. I would then vet this with others after the meting to get a sense as to whether or not my perceptions seemed valid. Personality type is one of the tools in he box so to speak that supports this understanding.

    So the focus is on attempting to understand how someone is thinking and feeling. What I won't do is to ascribe motivations behind behaviors. That is where I find mistakes tend to be made.

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  6. #286
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    Quote Originally Posted by highlander View Post
    Oh right. I misread your post. You didn't say that.

    I don't focus on intentions of people as you said because I have found that my perceptions of such things to be so unreliable as to be fairly worthless.

    Maybe I should explain it a different way though. I actually DO think quite a bit about where other people are coming from. I try to understand how a particular person is thinking or feeling during interpersonal interactions. I pay a lot of attention to facial expressions, body language, how they act, talk, etc. This is part of an effort to understand them. I hugely focus on that - how they are thinking, feeling, etc. I am not sure why I do this but I am compelled to expend a fair amount of energy on it. For example, during an important meeting with a client, I will form impressions about how they were reacting and guess what they were thinking. I would then vet this with others after the meting to get a sense as to whether or not my perceptions seemed valid. Personality type is one of the tools in he box so to speak that supports this understanding.

    So the focus is on attempting to understand how someone is thinking and feeling. What I won't do is to ascribe motivations behind behaviors. That is where I find mistakes tend to be made.
    How certain are you that you are an INTJ. And second you could spend a lot of energy on it but it wouldn't necessarily be a healthy thing for you to do. Generally acting out of weakness not strength. It could also be that it is a weakness that you are trying to compensate for. Were you like that as a child as well, or were you sort of surprised and bewildered when it came to people in general?

  7. #287
    Nerd King Usurper Edgar's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by highlander View Post
    I have found over the years that attempting to judge intentions is a fools errand. What matters is behavior and people are very complex, not even knowing why they do what they do.
    Some people are complex, but most not so much. If someone doesn't know why they do what they do, it doesn't make them complex - on the contrary, it is an indicator of poor self awareness, which strongly implies that that person is a fool.

    This being said, trust is one of the most important things in the entire area of human relations. I will err on the side of trusting that people generally do things for what they believe to be good reasons. As a result of this, I have tended to judge in the positive light and be let down a lot more than judging in a negative light.
    Trust is the most scarce commodity in human relationships. You erring on the side of trust is probably the reason why you are so bad at predicting people's behavior.
    Listen to me, baby, you got to understand, you're old enough to learn the makings of a man.
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  8. #288
    Administrator highlander's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Edgar View Post
    Some people are complex, but most not so much. If someone doesn't know why they do what they do, it doesn't make them complex - on the contrary, it is an indicator of poor self awareness, which strongly implies that that person is a fool.
    I don't think it makes them a fool exactly but you are right if someone doesn't know why they do what they do, it does indicate an opportunity to improve self awareness and that is something that matters a lot. It's what the Enneagram is all about as an example.

    Quote Originally Posted by Edgar View Post
    Trust is the most scarce commodity in human relationships. You erring on the side of trust is probably the reason why you are so bad at predicting people's behavior.
    Unless there is something I don't know about, I don't think I'm particularly bad at predicting people's behavior but I can see your point.

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  9. #289
    Analytical Dreamer Coriolis's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by highlander View Post
    I don't focus on intentions of people as you said because I have found that my perceptions of such things to be so unreliable as to be fairly worthless.
    Same here. But I can usually figure out what someone is trying to do based on their actions and statements, and my general knowledge of the situation. This helps me propose something that is a win for both of us, rather than winding up competing in some sort of zero sum game. On the other hand, most people who try to guess my intentions, even those who claim to be very good at it and typologically ought to be, guess wrong.

    Quote Originally Posted by highlander View Post
    I actually DO think quite a bit about where other people are coming from. I try to understand how a particular person is thinking or feeling during interpersonal interactions. I pay a lot of attention to facial expressions, body language, how they act, talk, etc. This is part of an effort to understand them. I hugely focus on that - how they are thinking, feeling, etc. I am not sure why I do this but I am compelled to expend a fair amount of energy on it. For example, during an important meeting with a client, I will form impressions about how they were reacting and guess what they were thinking. I would then vet this with others after the meting to get a sense as to whether or not my perceptions seemed valid. Personality type is one of the tools in he box so to speak that supports this understanding.
    I don't do any of this, at least not consciously. I listen to what they say and try to figure out in what context it might make sense. Often there are several. I compare this with what they do, how important various things seem to be to them. I will compare notes with others after a meeting, as you do, especially people who are better attuned to these sorts of things than I am. They may have missed some of the backstory that I picked up elsewhere, and together we can put together a reasonable picture of what is going on, and how to approach it.
    I've been called a criminal, a terrorist, and a threat to the known universe. But everything you were told is a lie. The truth is, they've taken our freedom, our home, and our future. The time has come for all humanity to take a stand...
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  10. #290
    Administrator highlander's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by andresimon View Post
    It would feel like a fools errand to you because honestly you would not be very good at it. Not because you cannot be but more so because you probably don't focus on the intentions of specific individuals or even a "theoretical human." Don't take this negatively, but some types are very good at judging and picking up on peoples intentions.
    15:50 - is this what you mean?


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