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Thread: Common INTJ Issues

  1. #221
    Unapologetic being Array Evolving Transparency's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by grey_beard View Post
    Noted. (grey_beard sighs, wipes perspiration off of brow.)
    I just can't speak for others though >.>


    This is not a grudge, we bear no ill will (intrinsically) unless we know the damage to us was done with malice aforethought. Otherwise, it is merely efficiency in self-preservation.
    The reason third chances are not given is simply that we know by that point, that further chances will be useless, and will only result in additional (foreseeable, therefore unnecessary)
    harm to ourselves.
    Yea I kind of experience this process myself. I don't hold a grudge unless I know intentions were proven to be with ill will.

    Except I probably have a lot more endurance cause my Ni is not as up to par with the patterns as an Ni dom's.
    "Once the game is over, the Pawn and the King go back into the same box"

    Freedom isn't free.
    "Freedom is the right to tell people what they do not want to hear." ~ Orwell
    I'm that person that embodies pretty much everything that you hate. Might as well get used to it.
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  2. #222
    Alchemist of life Array Coriolis's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by grey_beard View Post
    Sorry for the thread necro, but you nailed it in *one*. (Yes, that's redundant, as I see you are an INTJ, and by definition would be expected both to get it right, and to be able to describe is *succinctly*.)
    Nonetheless, it was so well executed that I felt compelled to applaud in public.
    I just wrote how I see it, as I usually do on topics like this. Glad it made sense to you.

    Quote Originally Posted by grey_beard View Post
    This is not a grudge, we bear no ill will (intrinsically) unless we know the damage to us was done with malice aforethought. Otherwise, it is merely efficiency in self-preservation.
    The reason third chances are not given is simply that we know by that point, that further chances will be useless, and will only result in additional (foreseeable, therefore unnecessary)
    harm to ourselves.
    All my life I have found it very hard to maintain a grudge. I have a long memory, but will allow it to be overridden immediately when confronted by convincing evidence that the person has changed, or at least understands and regrets their prior offenses. I suppose to do otherwise is a form of denying reality on emotional grounds, something I will not consciously do.
    I've been called a criminal, a terrorist, and a threat to the known universe. But everything you were told is a lie. The truth is, they've taken our freedom, our home, and our future. The time has come for all humanity to take a stand...

  3. #223
    Seal Down Array Hard's Avatar
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    The biggest issues I have, is the proverbial bar. It's a common thing with INTJ's from what I have noticed. However, with me also being a 1w2 this is amped way the fuck up.

    It's set, I get close to it, and it is moved higher. So I get closer yet again, and it gets pushed up higher. Rinse, wash, repeat. Day in day out with pretty much everything. I am never good enough, friends are never good enough, food is never good enough, nothing is ever good enough. Everything could always be better in some manner. I have learned to deal with this over the years and I get less hung up on things because of it. It has been bad enough in the past that my desire for perfection or fretting that something is not good enough had flat out paralyzed me from being able to move forward at all for long periods of time. No option is good enough, everything has an issue? Fine, I choose NOTHING. The desire for pristine progress stopped any sort of progress at all. Such irony. What's of most particular interest to me, partly because I doubt I will ever be able to fix it, is how I respond to actually meeting the bar. Seeing what perfect or the best actually truly is, is terrifying.

    The best example in recent memory was the conclusion of my first year of graduate school. I got the award for being the top first year graduate student. When my name got called, my eyes literally went wide and thought "WHAT?". I went up onto the front, took it, and just sort of looked at it and felt "...why? I don't deserve this.". I truly didn't feel that I did. I was told it was based on an objective record of first year coursework overall, as well as progress in research. Apparently put together I did the best. But man, I wholely did not agree with that. I knew for a fact I did not try my hardest (I never do) in my classes, and even got the lowest grade in one of my first term courses (NMR spectroscopy is difficult for me). My advisor was SO proud, was very contradulatory, etc. I felt horrible. It was an icky sick feeling. I did not believe that I deserved the award. I didn't do my best, and there had to be someone else that did better or was trying harder than I was. There was just absolutely no way. I questioned it, asked people, and eventually felt guilty for appearing unappreciative or undeserving of it. Winning this upset me enough that I actually began to do poorly. Partly because, I know had to set the bar for myself SUPER high. Much much higher than I knew I could even slightly reach, because others would expect me to preform at top notch all the time, and I know I can't do that. Thus I was garunteed to fail, and I could see it coming at me in the distance like a bullet train made of lead.

    It's a catch 22. I must be perfect, I must always do well, but if I actually make the grade and AM the best? I feel terrible. Much, much more so if it is unexpected. It's as if I am not supposed to be perfect but must strive for it. I have enountered this sort of issue in relationships as well. I have blocked myself from seeing romantic partners many times because I felt I was not in a pristine enough state to be worthy of dating. Or, that I was in a bad enough state that it would be unfair to subject others to myself in those states. It would have to wait until I was better. I have also applied it to others, secretly. I am very choosy with friends, and I shrug off some of them if they are in not a good enough state (also assuming my reserves are low, if they are high I can be fine with it).

    Things can ALWAYS be better. What's worse, is I can very easily see how they can be better. I can nitpick things, people (in particular people) and cut them to ribbons on where things can be improved. The problem is, once it's known, how is it dealt with? What's the best way to move forward? It's something that has no good or correct answer. At least for me with where I am at now. Oh well.
    MBTI: ExxJ tetramer
    Functions: Fe > Te > Ni > Se > Si > Ti > Fi > Ne
    Enneagram: 1w2 - 3w4 - 6w5 (The Taskmaster) | sp/so
    Socionics: β-E dimer | -
    Big 5: slOaI
    Temperament: Choleric/Melancholic
    Alignment: Lawful Neutral
    External Perception: Nohari and Johari

  4. #224
    The Typing Tabby Array grey_beard's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Coriolis View Post
    I just wrote how I see it, as I usually do on topics like this. Glad it made sense to you.
    Again, shake hands all round.

    Quote Originally Posted by Coriolis View Post
    All my life I have found it very hard to maintain a grudge. I have a long memory, but will allow it to be overridden immediately when confronted by convincing evidence that the person has changed, or at least understands and regrets their prior offenses. I suppose to do otherwise is a form of denying reality on emotional grounds, something I will not consciously do.
    Hail and well met!
    "Love never needs time. But friendship always needs time. More and more and more time, up to long past midnight." -- The Crime of Captain Gahagan

    Please comment on my johari / nohari pages.

  5. #225
    The Typing Tabby Array grey_beard's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hard View Post
    The biggest issues I have, is the proverbial bar. It's a common thing with INTJ's from what I have noticed. However, with me also being a 1w2 this is amped way the fuck up.

    It's set, I get close to it, and it is moved higher. So I get closer yet again, and it gets pushed up higher. Rinse, wash, repeat. Day in day out with pretty much everything. I am never good enough, friends are never good enough, food is never good enough, nothing is ever good enough. Everything could always be better in some manner. I have learned to deal with this over the years and I get less hung up on things because of it. It has been bad enough in the past that my desire for perfection or fretting that something is not good enough had flat out paralyzed me from being able to move forward at all for long periods of time. No option is good enough, everything has an issue? Fine, I choose NOTHING. The desire for pristine progress stopped any sort of progress at all. Such irony. What's of most particular interest to me, partly because I doubt I will ever be able to fix it, is how I respond to actually meeting the bar. Seeing what perfect or the best actually truly is, is terrifying.

    The best example in recent memory was the conclusion of my first year of graduate school. I got the award for being the top first year graduate student. When my name got called, my eyes literally went wide and thought "WHAT?". I went up onto the front, took it, and just sort of looked at it and felt "...why? I don't deserve this.". I truly didn't feel that I did. I was told it was based on an objective record of first year coursework overall, as well as progress in research. Apparently put together I did the best. But man, I wholely did not agree with that. I knew for a fact I did not try my hardest (I never do) in my classes, and even got the lowest grade in one of my first term courses (NMR spectroscopy is difficult for me). My advisor was SO proud, was very contradulatory, etc. I felt horrible. It was an icky sick feeling. I did not believe that I deserved the award. I didn't do my best, and there had to be someone else that did better or was trying harder than I was. There was just absolutely no way. I questioned it, asked people, and eventually felt guilty for appearing unappreciative or undeserving of it. Winning this upset me enough that I actually began to do poorly. Partly because, I know had to set the bar for myself SUPER high. Much much higher than I knew I could even slightly reach, because others would expect me to preform at top notch all the time, and I know I can't do that. Thus I was garunteed to fail, and I could see it coming at me in the distance like a bullet train made of lead.

    It's a catch 22. I must be perfect, I must always do well, but if I actually make the grade and AM the best? I feel terrible. Much, much more so if it is unexpected. It's as if I am not supposed to be perfect but must strive for it. I have enountered this sort of issue in relationships as well. I have blocked myself from seeing romantic partners many times because I felt I was not in a pristine enough state to be worthy of dating. Or, that I was in a bad enough state that it would be unfair to subject others to myself in those states. It would have to wait until I was better. I have also applied it to others, secretly. I am very choosy with friends, and I shrug off some of them if they are in not a good enough state (also assuming my reserves are low, if they are high I can be fine with it).

    Things can ALWAYS be better. What's worse, is I can very easily see how they can be better. I can nitpick things, people (in particular people) and cut them to ribbons on where things can be improved. The problem is, once it's known, how is it dealt with? What's the best way to move forward? It's something that has no good or correct answer. At least for me with where I am at now. Oh well.
    What is/was your major? PhD in Chemical Physics here.
    "Love never needs time. But friendship always needs time. More and more and more time, up to long past midnight." -- The Crime of Captain Gahagan

    Please comment on my johari / nohari pages.

  6. #226
    Seal Down Array Hard's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by grey_beard View Post
    What is/was your major? PhD in Chemical Physics here.
    Pretty darn close to you. Going for a PhD in organic chemistry (total synthesis focus). Aka, I am nuts.
    MBTI: ExxJ tetramer
    Functions: Fe > Te > Ni > Se > Si > Ti > Fi > Ne
    Enneagram: 1w2 - 3w4 - 6w5 (The Taskmaster) | sp/so
    Socionics: β-E dimer | -
    Big 5: slOaI
    Temperament: Choleric/Melancholic
    Alignment: Lawful Neutral
    External Perception: Nohari and Johari

  7. #227
    The Typing Tabby Array grey_beard's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hard View Post
    Pretty darn close to you. Going for a PhD in organic chemistry (total synthesis focus). Aka, I am nuts.
    Molecular Collision theory. A totally different kind of nuts -- I kept breaking glassware as an undergrad...I didn't realize I'd have just as much "fun" breaking *CODE*.
    Have you checked out the blog

    http:www.corante.com

    by a drug discovery chemist?
    "Love never needs time. But friendship always needs time. More and more and more time, up to long past midnight." -- The Crime of Captain Gahagan

    Please comment on my johari / nohari pages.

  8. #228
    Seal Down Array Hard's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by grey_beard View Post
    Molecular Collision theory. A totally different kind of nuts -- I kept breaking glassware as an undergrad...I didn't realize I'd have just as much "fun" breaking *CODE*.
    Have you checked out the blog

    http:www.corante.com

    by a drug discovery chemist?
    Better you than me! I hate dealing with computers. Even having to deal with the NMR programs is annoying enough. I feel much more comfortable working with something I can physically move around; I feel like I have much more control. For a while I wasn't quite sure I could handle the synthetic side because of my clumsiness. But, if I am able to handle working with pure OsO4 and not die, or make an organozinc compound with only 0.02M loss in concentration, I think I can handle it . Ask me to write a code? Someone get me a sledge hammer and an asprin...

    I have known I wanted to be a chemist from 10 years old, and in high school discovered organic which became my focus. I was never a big fan of math but was able to slog through it. Once I got to calculus I completely hated math and wanted to never do it again. In organic, all you need to do is count to 4 .

    Nope, I haven't seen it before. Nifty.
    MBTI: ExxJ tetramer
    Functions: Fe > Te > Ni > Se > Si > Ti > Fi > Ne
    Enneagram: 1w2 - 3w4 - 6w5 (The Taskmaster) | sp/so
    Socionics: β-E dimer | -
    Big 5: slOaI
    Temperament: Choleric/Melancholic
    Alignment: Lawful Neutral
    External Perception: Nohari and Johari

  9. #229
    Happy Dancer Array uumlau's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hard View Post
    The biggest issues I have, is the proverbial bar. It's a common thing with INTJ's from what I have noticed. However, with me also being a 1w2 this is amped way the fuck up.

    It's set, I get close to it, and it is moved higher. So I get closer yet again, and it gets pushed up higher. Rinse, wash, repeat. Day in day out with pretty much everything. I am never good enough, friends are never good enough, food is never good enough, nothing is ever good enough.

    ...

    The best example in recent memory was the conclusion of my first year of graduate school. I got the award for being the top first year graduate student. When my name got called, my eyes literally went wide and thought "WHAT?". I went up onto the front, took it, and just sort of looked at it and felt "...why? I don't deserve this.". I truly didn't feel that I did. I was told it was based on an objective record of first year coursework overall, as well as progress in research. Apparently put together I did the best. But man, I wholely did not agree with that. I knew for a fact I did not try my hardest (I never do) in my classes, and even got the lowest grade in one of my first term courses (NMR spectroscopy is difficult for me). My advisor was SO proud, was very contradulatory, etc. I felt horrible. It was an icky sick feeling. I did not believe that I deserved the award.
    I would suggest that this is 100% your 1w2. Enneagram is about how you react to things. I'm a type 9 INTJ, not type 1, and as such I tend not to focus on having everything be "perfect", but rather on having everything in working order: working smoothly, but not necessarily fulfilling some ideal of perfection.

    I've had occasions much like yours, except instead of thinking, "Wait, there's no way I'm the best person here," I think, "Wow, if I got this, my competition must have really sucked." I don't feel guilty about it, because I'm not comparing it to some absolute ideal that I didn't live up to. Rather, I just end up having contempt for the award. ... The really funny thing about the situation I'm thinking of is that I was totally unaware that this award was highly coveted at that particular school, and I just kind of waltzed in and took it without even realizing it - I didn't even know it existed. So my name is on a permanent plaque at that school for having won that award. *boggle*

    Quote Originally Posted by Hard View Post
    Pretty darn close to you. Going for a PhD in organic chemistry (total synthesis focus). Aka, I am nuts.
    Earned a Ph.D. in physics (specializing in relativistic astrophysical plasmas) back in the 90s. Ended up going into software development, as that paid a lot more than post-doc work (40k/yr? Really?! Even if you translate from 1990s dollars to modern dollars, it's not the kind of work that pays off college loans or mortgages). Fortunately, the tech bubble was just ramping up, so it was easy to jump in and ride the surge at the time.
    An argument is two people sharing their ignorance.

    A discussion is two people sharing their understanding, even when they disagree.

  10. #230
    Junior Member Array EclecticTeal's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by highlander View Post
    A lot of issues that INTJs have relate to Ni taking an overly dominant role in their personality. Some examples of this:

    Don't listen to other perspectives - At times, the INTJ can quickly dismiss things that others might say and have a tendency to come across like they think they are always right. Even if they do listen, they may not come across like they are. The explanation for much of this is that the INTJ can use Te to cut off new information rather than the more productive use of Te, which is to judge their insights against the external world. [/b]
    This has actually been an issue for me when dealing with another INTJ. I don't often offer advice or give my opinion, so when I do I guess I would expect others to listen, especially other INTJs. (Yes, some arrogance here.)

    When I am dismissed outright, immediately, and we re-visit the issue later it is apparent I was right.

    I guess it's hard to get my own INTJ dismissive attitude thrown back at me, and now that I see how destructive it can be, I'm wondering what is at the root of this. I'm at least Trying not to be a hypocrite.

    I'm finding this a little hard to understand, because we are usually open to new information. To be so dismissive we must assume we already have all the information needed, or possibly it is a negative/stress response when we don't think we have time to take in new information and need to go ahead and make a decision based on information already stored.

    Any thoughts?
    Last edited by EclecticTeal; 05-28-2014 at 12:26 AM. Reason: clarity

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