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Thread: Common INTJ Issues

  1. #211
    Alchemist of life Array Coriolis's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by RaptorWizard View Post
    Why do you think INTJs are buttheads?

    If anything, it's those dang ESFPs that reign all of their chains over me!
    To validate the test as an indicator of INTJ type, one would need to have many clearly-typed INTJs take it, and see how they score.
    I've been called a criminal, a terrorist, and a threat to the known universe. But everything you were told is a lie. The truth is, they've taken our freedom, our home, and our future. The time has come for all humanity to take a stand...

  2. #212
    The Typing Tabby Array grey_beard's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Coriolis View Post
    Given how few relationships most INTJS have compared with other types, we probably do invest much more energy into each one, especially a close friend or partner. If we don't feel this commitment is being reciprocated, we may conclude our investment of energy is not worth it. A sort of cost/benefit analysis. A reduction in attention from the other person can also come across as either a reduction in interest, or even a betrayal, depending on how close and committed the relationship was originally. INTJs tend to be decisive and rather ruthless when it comes to terminating relationships: either it is worth having one with someone, or it is not. Much of this is driven by Fi considerations that the INTJ might not even be aware of.
    Sorry for the thread necro, but you nailed it in *one*. (Yes, that's redundant, as I see you are an INTJ, and by definition would be expected both to get it right, and to be able to describe is *succinctly*.)
    Nonetheless, it was so well executed that I felt compelled to applaud in public.
    "Love never needs time. But friendship always needs time. More and more and more time, up to long past midnight." -- The Crime of Captain Gahagan

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  3. #213
    The Typing Tabby Array grey_beard's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Coriolis View Post
    No, it comes from the combination of functions. Ni makes us feel certain of the undesirable outcome, once we see a preponderance of evidence. Te makes us decisive. In this respect, it is very easy for us to make the decision to downgrade or terminate a relationship, and to follow through on it. It probably looks quite straightforward and absolute to the other person. Inside, however, we can be just as hurt by the outcome as the other person, though we will not let on about that, and will certainly not let it stop us. This is essentially what happened between myself and my ex, when our relationship ended.
    @Coriolis; @Urarienev; @Inari Love --
    Sorry again for the thread necro, not stalking but just going down the thread in sequential order and commenting as the fit takes me.
    A good term for this termination process is autocauterizing.
    Yeah, I know, "term for this TERMination" is awkward. Too bad, I'm not changing it.
    Last edited by grey_beard; 02-08-2014 at 11:22 AM. Reason: add sardonic close
    "Love never needs time. But friendship always needs time. More and more and more time, up to long past midnight." -- The Crime of Captain Gahagan

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  4. #214
    The Typing Tabby Array grey_beard's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kalach View Post
    How do you know? (User manual: as a member of the illuminati Ni person, you'll have some pre-existing, developed over time conceptual scheme that you apply to situations, and you'll possibly even be able to describe that conceptual scheme independent of being attracted to the gestalt of some changing situation. So, Ni is....?)

    But re ISFJs and INTJs...

    Of all people types in this world, I find ISFJs to be the most opaque. By typological law it must be admitted that they do have inner workings, but their priorities and perceptions are so very unlike my own that I can't really make much sense of the person beyond noting the Barbie Doll exterior. Any sensible INTJ will give up after a while. Interaction with ISFJs pays off in literally no terms. There are no points of contact beyond the bodily and, if you're unfortunate enough, some unchangeable history.
    Careful there. INTJ and ISFJ can work together if they have shared *values*. I've been married to an ISFJ for 27 years now.
    Yes, one does have to come to terms with the fact that they have *ZERO* intuition. On the other hand, having someone who can make the household trains run on time is a blessing.
    "Love never needs time. But friendship always needs time. More and more and more time, up to long past midnight." -- The Crime of Captain Gahagan

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  5. #215
    The Typing Tabby Array grey_beard's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Urarienev View Post
    So the question I was leading up to for INTJ's was: if this happened, this scenario of the other person not putting in enough effort and you "dropping" them, Would you give them another chance if they made it up to you??<---like with A LOT of effort...lets just say they still wanted to be your friend/lova badly enough to communicate with a grand gesture or something of the sort.


    Or is it one of those things where the person says...once a liar always a liar...if you get what i mean?
    Yet more crunchy thread necro on my part.
    It depends on if the lack of attention to you was inadvertent, negligent, deliberate, or with malice aforethought.
    A grand gesture -- IF you could tell it wasn't "calculating" on their part, and was (in some form or another) costly enough to them, might allow them to start over, although not at square one, they'd still have a penalty/handicap of some time, and possibly be subject to ongoing heightened vigilance for a time...
    "Love never needs time. But friendship always needs time. More and more and more time, up to long past midnight." -- The Crime of Captain Gahagan

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  6. #216
    The Typing Tabby Array grey_beard's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Salomé View Post
    This part made me laugh for some reason.



    Common issues I have with INTJs is that I generally can't stand them and they get obsessed with ( trying to dominate ) me.

    It has become an almost laughably common dynamic.

    I suppose because I tend to find them baffling and/or detestable, I haven't bothered to learn much about them beyond that. I have been told I have the death stare myself though, so I don't think this is a uniquely INTJ trait.
    @Salomé

    Relative n00b here, sorry for the sustained thread necro. I've gotta start (or continue) somewhere.
    Why do you find INTJs baffling and/or detestable? (I ask not because I am INTJ, but because I am -- like you -- an Enneagram 5w4 sx/sp and would have guessed or hoped that the Enneagram commonalities would, if not override, at least serve to bridge the gap on the INTP vs INTJ thing. And yes, I realize that neither INTJ nor INTP are exclusively 5w4 sx/sp, nor do I know the Enneagram of the INTJs you've tussled with.)
    But I'm quite the n00b at this stuff, so I'm willing to close my mouth & open my (not ears, since we're typing) eyes and learn...
    Best wishes.
    Last edited by grey_beard; 02-08-2014 at 01:59 PM. Reason: *PING* user
    "Love never needs time. But friendship always needs time. More and more and more time, up to long past midnight." -- The Crime of Captain Gahagan

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  7. #217
    The Typing Tabby Array grey_beard's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Salomé View Post
    Approaching an INTJ "the right way" means "on your knees".
    @Salomé
    This brings to mind the salacious interpretation of "She stoops to conquer" -- see also Zarathustra's comment #94 and your comment #103.
    But I presume from the rest of your comments, *you* didn't mean it like that, although presumably some of your INTJ disputants *did*, or at least wished/hoped for it...
    Last edited by grey_beard; 02-08-2014 at 01:35 PM. Reason: *PING* user
    "Love never needs time. But friendship always needs time. More and more and more time, up to long past midnight." -- The Crime of Captain Gahagan

    Please comment on my johari / nohari pages.

  8. #218
    The Typing Tabby Array grey_beard's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Amargith View Post


    See, this right here is the difference between Ti and Te (and it doesnt help that mine is tertiary, Im sure ). Its certainly true that my understanding of INTPs is more limited (I dont live with one), though I tend to get along pretty decently with them. I seem to understand the outer layers and even some beneath, but the core...Im still working on that one

    Anycase, I guess we had to stop derailing this thread at some point

    Edit: I'd love for any INTPs who stumble upon this convo and want to give feedback to rep me whether or not they understood where I was going and if I was onto something. Thanks!
    @Amargith, @Salomé
    I'm an INTJ not INTP, but may I *suggest* (NOT insist!) that the INTJ just wants to get things right to within some pre-determined "circular error probable" (close enough for government work / the INTJ's standards subject to time or energy or budgetary constraints) whereas the INTP wants to lay down the internal mechanism of the theory to the point that it is both self-consistent *and* complete, ab initio, even on those items which are not currently, nor ever shall be, of practical import: and the INTP lays equal importance on the practically relevant and the non-practically relevant portions of the framework.
    I am willing to be instructed / corrected by INTPs with internal knowledge of their own workings however.
    Last edited by grey_beard; 02-09-2014 at 01:43 AM. Reason: *PING* second user properly
    "Love never needs time. But friendship always needs time. More and more and more time, up to long past midnight." -- The Crime of Captain Gahagan

    Please comment on my johari / nohari pages.

  9. #219
    Unapologetic being Array Evolving Transparency's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by grey_beard View Post
    @Coriolis; @Urarienev; @Inari Love --
    Sorry again for the thread necro, not stalking but just going down the thread in sequential order and commenting as the fit takes me.
    A good term for this termination process is autocauterizing.
    Yeah, I know, "term for this TERMination" is awkward. Too bad, I'm not changing it.
    Wow

    Perfect word cauterization

    I am going to refer to that all the time now. Totally stealing it. Cause it's also in general what NJ's seem to do. INFJ's and INTJ's the most I guess, though. They cauterize ppl. (This is all from my personal observation of course, no where is this objectively written.)

    And just so you know...you don't ever have to apologize to me for digging up an old thread. Or old subjects for that matter. I will keep beating a dead horse at a moments notice. It's what I love to do.(seriously) I love context AND closure, so the more of that the better!

    Quote Originally Posted by grey_beard View Post
    Yet more crunchy thread necro on my part.
    no worries

    It depends on if the lack of attention to you was inadvertent, negligent, deliberate, or with malice aforethought.
    A grand gesture -- IF you could tell it wasn't "calculating" on their part, and was (in some form or another) costly enough to them, might allow them to start over, although not at square one, they'd still have a penalty/handicap of some time, and possibly be subject to ongoing heightened vigilance for a time...
    Yea I would figure that.

    I just didn't know how much INTJ's held grudges.

    It's one thing to be weary of next time, and a whole other thing to not let a next time happen.

    I guess the line between those two things, are subjective for each INTJ.
    "Once the game is over, the Pawn and the King go back into the same box"

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  10. #220
    The Typing Tabby Array grey_beard's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Urarienev View Post
    Wow

    Perfect word cauterization

    I am going to refer to that all the time now. Totally stealing it. Cause it's also in general what NJ's seem to do. INFJ's and INTJ's the most I guess, though. They cauterize ppl. (This is all from my personal observation of course, no where is this objectively written.)
    (grey_beard bows with patented INTJ humble pride (TM).)

    Quote Originally Posted by Urarienev View Post
    And just so you know...you don't ever have to apologize to me for digging up an old thread. Or old subjects for that matter. I will keep beating a dead horse at a moments notice. It's what I love to do.(seriously) I love context AND closure, so the more of that the better!
    Noted. (grey_beard sighs, wipes perspiration off of brow.)



    Quote Originally Posted by Urarienev View Post
    no worries



    Yea I would figure that.

    I just didn't know how much INTJ's held grudges.

    It's one thing to be weary of next time, and a whole other thing to not let a next time happen.

    I guess the line between those two things, are subjective for each INTJ.
    This is not a grudge, we bear no ill will (intrinsically) unless we know the damage to us was done with malice aforethought. Otherwise, it is merely efficiency in self-preservation.
    The reason third chances are not given is simply that we know by that point, that further chances will be useless, and will only result in additional (foreseeable, therefore unnecessary)
    harm to ourselves.
    "Love never needs time. But friendship always needs time. More and more and more time, up to long past midnight." -- The Crime of Captain Gahagan

    Please comment on my johari / nohari pages.

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