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  1. #191
    Unapologetic being Evolving Transparency's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Salomé View Post
    I agree with her up to a point. I don't think it's possible to impose rigid ordering schemes of functions. In fact, beyond dom and aux (and by implication inf) it's all up for grabs. And why wouldn't it be?
    Agreed. I probably cling more to her theory and structure than you do because it's what I need. I also like the ideas she has of the areas of the brain and where cognitive functions physically appear.

    But I do find INTP's using way more Fi than Fe. True dat! Although I still see the attacking that Fe does <--similar to an INFJ or something. Quick. Sharp. Thurough. Probably a mix of some kind of value...Ti or Fi...I dunno. But it's being defended by Fe it seems. Not in the way that Fe wants to be friends...but that it's "what's right" or something. It executes. Unless I am mis reading an INFJ's Fe.

    Also I have not seen the desire or need for things to be left open, etc in that many P's.(not in the same plaguing way that you were mentioning earlier) I mostly get this from just INTP's, this...extreme. It also plays into how they don't want others to ask things of them and they don't ask of others. Cause they can't have anything or anyone in the situation controlled.
    "Once the game is over, the Pawn and the King go back into the same box"

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  2. #192
    Administrator highlander's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Salomé View Post

    Nah. What pisses me off about NTJs is when they are condescending, insulting, domineering and relentlessly petty. They lose sight of the big picture and get bogged down in irrelevant details and stupid, boring pissing contests which are wholly non-constructive. Part of the reason for that may be because they are closed off to new ideas, but it's difficult to know which is chicken and which is egg. It's not difficult to know which is tiresome though. (Goes without saying this only applies to immature NTJs ).


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  3. #193
    meh Salomé's Avatar
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    Are you laughing because you recognise yourself?
    Quote Originally Posted by Ivy View Post
    Gosh, the world looks so small from up here on my high horse of menstruation.

  4. #194
    meh Salomé's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Urarienev View Post
    Agreed. I probably cling more to her theory and structure than you do because it's what I need. I also like the ideas she has of the areas of the brain and where cognitive functions physically appear.
    I like those too, but there is scant support for them.

    But I do find INTP's using way more Fi than Fe. True dat! Although I still see the attacking that Fe does <--similar to an INFJ or something. Quick. Sharp. Thurough. Probably a mix of some kind of value...Ti or Fi...I dunno. But it's being defended by Fe it seems. Not in the way that Fe wants to be friends...but that it's "what's right" or something. It executes. Unless I am mis reading an INFJ's Fe.
    It's more likely that you are misreading the INTP's.

    Also I have not seen the desire or need for things to be left open, etc in that many P's.(not in the same plaguing way that you were mentioning earlier) I mostly get this from just INTP's, this...extreme. It also plays into how they don't want others to ask things of them and they don't ask of others. Cause they can't have anything or anyone in the situation controlled.
    Yes. We do tend to take it to unhealthy extremes. Part of the reason is because our feeling function is so weak, we often do not feel we have a basis for making a decision (most decisions have an emotional component to them). It's very hard for us to know what we want/feel, but much easier to recognise what we don't want. (Because the negative character of iFe asserts itself.)

    Quote Originally Posted by Kalach View Post
    But the real rightness lies in.... lol, I don't know, I want to say "in demystifying the reasonless". The world as extroverted sensing is reasonless, it just happens. It needs there to be something behind it for it to have coherence. Thus, one is seeking to discover the deeper coherences.
    "It" needs, or you need?
    I find reasonlessness comforting.

    . If the machine seeks in both worlds for the same thing, it is no longer a conscious device. Since for the machine there is no qualitative difference between inner and outer realms, there there is no tension to straddle. The third position, the conscious person, fails to exist.
    Of course there is still tension, why would the tension not increase (along with consciousness)? In fact, this is how consciousness evolves (by integrating more and more perspectives).
    Quote Originally Posted by Ivy View Post
    Gosh, the world looks so small from up here on my high horse of menstruation.

  5. #195
    Filthy Apes! Kalach's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Salomé View Post
    "It" needs, or you need?
    Zing!

    But... and here we have an interesting problem... how did I come to need it? I think such "needs" are and must be logically prior to the person. A logically arbitrary and necessarily rigid division of attention must exist before any position that chooses focus can exist--before any person can come into being.

    If for example it were possible to seek in the inner realm and the outer realm for direct affect, the distinction between inner and outer must collapse and the person dissolve.

    I don't know why.

    But how else does any kind of cognitive distinction exist? If it's not wired in at a level well below choice, then what other device is doing the directing of libidinous energies? From what other irritant could consciousness arise? If there isn't distinct preference, then we should be investigating whatever that other ghost in the machine may be.
    Bellison uncorked a flood of horrible profanity, which, translated, meant, "This is extremely unusual."

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  6. #196
    Unapologetic being Evolving Transparency's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Salomé View Post
    I like those too, but there is scant support for them.

    It's more likely that you are misreading the INTP's.

    Yes. We do tend to take it to unhealthy extremes. Part of the reason is because our feeling function is so weak, we often do not feel we have a basis for making a decision (most decisions have an emotional component to them). It's very hard for us to know what we want/feel, but much easier to recognise what we don't want. (Because the negative character of iFe asserts itself.)
    Yea I know, it's some kinda inner attraction though(I love Biology)...even if the support or evidence is wrong/weak I like looking at what people make of the brain.



    Yea I'm not sure if I'm misreading or not...it's pretty difficult to decifer what's what though. I can never really interpret who the core being INTP's are. I have only gotten 1/4 of the way of getting to know only one that way. Little is ever revealed by them, very guarded. Feels like it would take a long time and I get tired of not getting thrown a bone once in a while lol. They're obviously not shallow though, just guarded.

    Are you saying that they don't defend themselves, or their values ? Or stand up for things easily? Or are you saying that it's not an attack. If it's not an attack what its it? I think that the saying" the best defense is an offense" is true to them.
    "Once the game is over, the Pawn and the King go back into the same box"

    Freedom isn't free.
    "Freedom is the right to tell people what they do not want to hear." ~ Orwell
    I'm that person that embodies pretty much everything that you hate. Might as well get used to it.
    Unapologetically bonding in an uninhibited, propelled manner
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  7. #197
    Junior Member Hetha's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by WhoCares View Post
    My biggest issue is having nothing in comon with 90% of the people I meet. I'm fine to communicate, socialise and keep my arrogance in check. But when it comes down to shared interests I'm at an absolute loss because I'm into a lot of interests that other people find socially reprehensible. Namely crafting....making stuff. It's what really old retired people do....apparently. i should probably channel this into some high-brow intellectual interest like architecture, fine art or antique collecting but the simple fact is I love making mundane and obscure stuff with my hands. Admitting that you're a crafter is a bit like saying you've got herpes or leprosy. No-one wants to know.

    The other big problem I have is my general lack of connection with the outside world. Most of the time I'm oblivious to what or who is around me. My failure to pay attention to someone when they think I should be trips me up a lot. I am iften quite shocked when someone around spits the dummy. I'm like....wtf was that about?
    I can somewhat relate to this. At work, I'm surrounded by people who either talk a lot to each other about football, small talk gossip, celebrities, and how screwed up their own lives and other people's lives are, and workplace politics. I'm polite, civil, go about my business, keep working, and only converse with a few individuals who engage me in conversations that are a bit more interesting and cerebral, (at least to me). I've developed just enough sense to simply not engage my co-workers when those topics that are of less interest to me are being discussed. At the same time, I don't let on to others my abhorrence of those topics, I've categorized them into the,"they're simply different than me," category and left it there. The truth is I love the job I do, and I enjoy the work I do, so my focus is with the challenge of my work and I stay focused on it, until the tasks are completed. Never mind that people view me as "hard-to-read," I try my best within my limits to allow them to talk to me in some resemblance of a social context, without being a pushover either. But yes, the lack of connection can be a pain.

    I will admit, I avoid people that discuss those topics, and dismiss the discussions as irrelevant to my goals. I'm there to find more efficient and organized ways of doing those tasks, and frankly, I know that I'm on a career path that will yield a far better reward, than the temporary "resume builder for experience" position I am currently in.

    I'm still reading and absorbing the contents of Amargith's post, among others.
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  8. #198
    Analytical Dreamer Coriolis's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hetha View Post
    The truth is I love the job I do, and I enjoy the work I do, so my focus is with the challenge of my work and I stay focused on it, until the tasks are completed. Never mind that people view me as "hard-to-read," I try my best within my limits to allow them to talk to me in some resemblance of a social context, without being a pushover either. But yes, the lack of connection can be a pain.
    In what sense? I have always found lack of connection preferable to bad connections.
    I've been called a criminal, a terrorist, and a threat to the known universe. But everything you were told is a lie. The truth is, they've taken our freedom, our home, and our future. The time has come for all humanity to take a stand...

  9. #199
    Junior Member Hetha's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Coriolis View Post
    In what sense? I have always found lack of connection preferable to bad connections.
    They become a pain to me, when they interfere with raises, promotions. I also find lack of connection preferable to bad connections, however when they use "like-ability" over competence, when considering a raise or a promotion, it defies the logic of whether or not someone is doing a good job with their work. I prefer competence and capability. I think their favoritism and office politics should not be a part of that environment, but unfortunately a lot of jobs have this.

    Now, I've receive many raises, since I started the job more than two years ago, I'm not seeking a promotion within this company, because they know that I will be leaving the company after I finish my classes at the local college and save up some money to move out-of-town at the end of this year. I have plans to move to a place where I can attend the university of my choice, and continue my studies into this field to land me a much better and higher position elsewhere. So leaving this job is ( I hope) on good terms for resume building, since I'm pursuant to making a career within the field I'm in.
    That said, I observe from an objective perspective outside of all the gossip, backbiting, social minefield they've created for themselves, and look for solutions to improve the efficiency, structure, and work flow. I do this for future referencing and long-range goal setting. I want to make extra sure, that when I land the position I'm working diligently for within my field, that I am a benefit to the company I will end up working for. That I've taken all things and details into consideration, and that I'm thoroughly aware of what works and what doesn't work, and the how and why behind it.
    MBTi: INTJ

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    Global 5: sloan RCOEI; sloan+ RcoE|I|; primary Inquisitive; R(80%)C(60%)O(64%)E(70%)I(86%)
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  10. #200
    Senior Member Scheherezade's Avatar
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    i totally share your thoughts, and most of your situation,
    i am not so well adapted as you and i find this to be somewhat difficult at my job, not the interacting part, but more the "i am exposed to their stupid conversations" part and find it difficult sometimes not to mentally roll my eyes at something people say.

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