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  1. #71
    Junior Member umop_3pisdn's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kiddo View Post

    I could therefore argue that I'm the type of person who is always "open to the possibility of being wrong," when I simply always OmNi shift my way out of any discussion where I am wrong so I don't have to acknowledge that I was wrong. Therefore in my own mind, I didn't violate my principle "being open to the possibility of being wrong," even though I was wrong and I simply shifted my perception to avoid acknowledging it. It seems to be a perfect ego defense mechanism and the only downside is INXJs can't OmNi shift other people's perceptions so they end up looking arrogant as a result.
    You're right. But I think it makes us look more credible if we more readily admit our wrongness. And not necessarily to be viewed in a negative or shameful light, as being too self-deprecating does anything but inspire confidence... Perhaps ideally stated in a more logical or impartial way. Recognizing it for what it is, noting it for the future, and moving on. Mistaken interpretations are just mistakes. They have to be made sometimes. But I think, as a type, we're perhaps more prone to internalizing them. It's often easier to admit it to myself that I am wrong, and allow it to eat me up inside, than it is to admit it publicly. But, as was said, we often like to project the "best" image possible. Most people are actually appreciative of some level of humanness/fallibility. It's a hard habit to shake, though.

    People tend to respect me more when I'm willing to admit that they are right and I am wrong. Image consciousness can motivate me to maintain humility in some things I find to be more mundane or outside my interests, in the times when it's otherwise hard to maintain the motivation. Other times, it's about honoring the other person. If they are right, they sort of deserve to be recognized for it. I enjoy being recognized for my insight whenever I happen to be "right", and I think they deserve the same. If they shed new insight on a topic, and it appeals to my perspective, I do often instantaneously adopt the new perspective without a second thought. But I still tend to recognize it as originating from an outside influence, and I respect the person it came from. Even if it means admitting to incorrectness on my part, I will admit to it very readily if I'm shown, via new information, to clearly be in the "wrong". The shift is somewhat instantaneous, but I still have an initial feeling of "whoops, my bad, time to revise", and an appreciation for this new insight.

  2. #72
    Don't Judge Me! Haphazard's Avatar
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    Certain forms of wrongness are more easily admittable than others -- I mean, if you parked in a different parking garage than the one you're poking around in is the wrong one, you're very obviously going to have to move and look in a different one to find your car.

    Anything different from that, though, and things get a little stickier. It may be something that's mostly determined by popular opinion (and face it, since when have INTJs ever cared about that?) or if it's one particular piece of evidence that doesn't look like it quite matches a theory, the INTJ will try to bend it so that it fits or outright ignore it.

    If there's something to be gained if the INTJ happens to be right, then they might stick to what appears to be a stupid position for a very long time, like in a class when they believe that their answer 'could' be right but the teacher says otherwise (in this case, it's a matter of points, which the INTJ may need.) Also, if it seems to the INTJ a 'subjective' manner until proven otherwise, they may retain a position under the rationalization that the other person's point of view has as much to do with their own biases as their own opinion does, but because the other person has no idea what the INTJ has done in their life, the INTJ has a right to his own subjective opinion about what works best in his personal experience.

    INTJs probably consider themselves flexible because they look at the past and they see how much they've improved and changed over time, while outsiders see them as inflexible because of the way they have the habit of arguing and sticking with point of views whenever there is another one that is considered 'right' by popular standard. INJs are pretty difficult to deal with because they don't naturally conform to any 'truth' they see in the world and also they won't conform simply to have a common standard with other people.

    I think the fundamental problem with ANY INJ hate thread is the nature of Ni. It may see flaws in how something reacts with something else, but each action by itself is meaningless. For INTJs, it just gets worse because rather than 'hating' anything they just go on tearing apart behavior and just have too much of the attitude, 'People hate us for X, Y, and Z reasons, but if we look at it THIS way, there appears to be nothing wrong with that, or the only reason it's wrong is because of THIS perspective. Otherwise it's just stuff that happens. Only change when it becomes a visible problem'

    ad nauseum.

  3. #73
    Furry Critter with Claws Kiddo's Avatar
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    Ok, new topic.

    INTJs suck because they love talking about themselves so much.

    (I actually find this trait endearing to a degree.)
    Quote Originally Posted by Silently Honest View Post
    OMNi: Wisdom at the cost of Sanity.

  4. #74
    Don't Judge Me! Haphazard's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kiddo View Post
    Ok, new topic.

    INTJs suck because they love talking about themselves so much.

    (I actually find this trait endearing to a degree.)
    It's true. We do.

  5. #75
    you are right mippus's Avatar
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    But so do other types (when in doubt, visit INTPc )
    Vanitas vanitatum omnia vanitas

  6. #76
    Senior Member Works's Avatar
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    I get along pretty well with most INTJs, especially the women. I think most of it has to do with a mutual respect of intelligence and thought process.

  7. #77
    Member Annuit Coeptis's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kiddo View Post
    that pesky Ni which jumps to conclusions based on very little information.
    And they seem to be not only unwilling, but unable to mold their environment- to a much greater degree than INTP's, at least in my limited experience. I never understood why my very intelligent brother felt the need to follow the status quo to a T. He is unwilling to bend on the "big issues," sometimes regardless of sound evidence.

    In the INTJ defense, though- I do love the way that they "deconstruct" information, if they are willing to...
    read "The Creature From Jekyll Island" by G. Edward Griffin to learn how the Federal Reserve is robbing Americans blind and destroying this nation and others.

  8. #78
    Senior Member TheLastMohican's Avatar
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    All right, thanks to Kiddo for getting us back on topic. But the "invisible" text was a backward step.

    Yes, INTJ's talk about themselves a lot. But is this relevant to INTJ's specifically? It seems that that is just a trait of most humans. What makes it an INTJ trait?

    Also, I'd like some ideas about this: Why are there so few people commenting here (especially seeing how many of these are INTJ's themselves)? Are INTJ's not as hated as they seem?

  9. #79
    Don't Judge Me! Haphazard's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Duke of York View Post
    Also, I'd like some ideas about this: Why are there so few people commenting here (especially seeing how many of these are INTJ's themselves)? Are INTJ's not as hated as they seem?
    I think most people here understand by now that the greatest insult to an INTJ is to not have critique rather than to have the harshest critique imaginable. It's much less time consuming and much more effective to insult us with silence than with words.

  10. #80
    Senior Member TheLastMohican's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Haphazard View Post
    I think most people here understand by now that the greatest insult to an INTJ is to not have critique rather than to have the harshest critique imaginable. It's much less time consuming and much more effective to insult us with silence than with words.
    But then the silence becomes that harshest critique, so it defeats its own purpose.

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