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  1. #101
    Senior Member TheLastMohican's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kiddo View Post
    INFJs share only two cognitive processes with INTJs. Now ESFPs on the other hand; they share all of them.
    True; but they are exactly reversed, and thus ESFP's are very, very different. I would agree that INFJ and INTJ are most similar.

  2. #102
    Junior Member umop_3pisdn's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by aelan View Post
    "Hell is other INTJs" - Economica.

    "Hell is an INTJ" - aelan
    Generally, yeah And I'm saying this without shifting blame onto others, or saying other INTJ's are like this. I, myself, am. Many of the INTJ posters here I find quite admirable, and in many ways I find them to be more mature or balanced than myself.

    I often get annoyed with myself in how self-absorbed and how much of a solipsist I can be, and often it is in a somewhat boring and unexciting way, at least from a 3rd person perspective. I know we INTJ's can have this ability to zap enthusiasm for things, or analyze all the intrigue away, or make it boring (I sure can...) It's actually a relatively common feeling for me to feel insufferable and annoying. I talk about myself way too much (as can be seen...) and sometimes I can't think of anything to discuss outside my (admittedly self-intentioned/solipsist) field of interests. And I often feel the need to maintain some competent facade, and I erect many layers of walls and barriers to keep people from knowing me. I'm often actually surprised my friends are actually friends with me, since they often strike me as better people than myself.

    So, yeah. There are actually some things I could perhaps relate to type, that I'm not so crazy about. I'm not a huge fan of the whole social thing being my Achilles heel. I recognize my responsibility over it, but so often there's this lame dualistic division between my inner world and the world outside, and it's hard to breach the divide, or meaningfully express myself. Let alone actually compromise on some of my internally held standards/ideals! It's naturally easier for me to self-isolate and daydream than it is for me to meaningfully connect with others, and live in the moment/reality. This strikes me as running contrary to my attainment of happiness/ social satisfaction. And it does honestly scare me, when I think it's very likely I could die alone/lonely, if I don't fix some of these tendencies.

    And, yeah, I'm not trying to sound all pitiful or modest or anything... I think it's possible many INTJ's may sort of feel similarly, but haven't become comfortable with recognizing weakness within themselves. I actually sort of have an inferiority complex, and I think it's more constructive for me to be aware of/accepting of these feelings, since they tend to make me more genuine.
    Likes Smoothie liked this post

  3. #103
    Don't Judge Me! Haphazard's Avatar
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    When I try to search for what I should be revealing to other people for intimacy I get lost as to what's really there and what's not. What I say will change every day because of paradigmn shift.

    So I usually try forget about this and realize that I should be focused on the task at hand.
    -Carefully taking sips from the Fire Hose of Knowledge

  4. #104
    Junior Member umop_3pisdn's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Veneti View Post
    yeah, don't spend all your time learning about quantum mechanics etc, try getting entralled as a hobby into something a bit more "poppy" like psychology, most people enjoy a bit of psycholoanalysis so its good to talk with others (If you must use your brain).
    I agree. But what I dislike is the fact that I seem to need some sort of intellectual something or other to analyze, in order to make interesting conversation. The only time I'm really able to wow people through the art of conversation, is when I'm talking about one of my nerdy interests or something I researched. Then when it goes to some other topic not in my interests, I'm utterly lost for words. I think it gives people the impression I only care about my select interests, and I can ignore/leave everything else... and that is actually sort of how it is, though it's not really a conscious decision.

    Oftentimes I think I'd prefer a greater variety of interests, or a slightly less self-serving or self-intentioned perspective. People are usually appreciative of my insights, but sometimes I feel annoyed that I'm somewhat confined to that niche. Granted it's a sort of self-confinement. I could expand my competencies, but I'm self conscious/vain enough that I hate trying to grapple with something that I feel is outside my element.

    Quote Originally Posted by Veneti View Post
    There's plenty of things to learn about, hell you could analyse music to death and be popular at the same time. What about brewing beer... see, its science and sociability in one go.
    Yes, you're right. I still don't understand it, though. It isn't always, but sometimes I can be so insufferably boring, I even frustrate myself to great lengths. And this isn't because other people are around. I'd frustrate myself if I were alone, as well.

    And, depending on what sort of perspective is entertained, the conversation on nearly any topic can vary from open/inviting to less open/uninviting. I have a tendency of viewing a topic through my own personal lenses, and turning the conversation stupidly esoteric and tangential and personal. My Ni will be busy making associations and such, but oftentimes they're entirely personal, and bringing these things into conversation only serves to alienate everyone because I stupidly decide to steer the conversation into some awkward area.

    Quote Originally Posted by Veneti View Post
    Hmm.. If you build those walls too high then they might really come crashing down one day. Try imagining yourself as a piece of flotsam on the waves... up and down... when your down, you be going up next. Everything passes you buy.

    I agree, and that's sort of the problem. Some part of me is nearly always unwilling to let people in, even though intellectually I know it's counter productive. In part, I associate this with type, though I think the larger share is just my individual issues. Most forms of intimacy seem "wrong", and I have an extreme tendency to dismiss or ignore otherwise interesting people on flimsy bases, so as to maintain my sense of safety. Sometimes I get the very distinct feeling I'm overlooking opportunities because I can be too idealistic or discerning. And I think a large motivating factor is purely my fear of intimacy. The idea of taking down my walls freaks me out, even when I know it would be more helpful if it didn't scare me so much. So often this leads me to feel like I'm wrestling with my own nature.

    Quote Originally Posted by Veneti View Post
    Its not so hard to be sociable, but it does take time to become more outgoing. Many outgoing people are popular because they have flexibile standards.
    You're right, but I'm also prone to hyper-analysis in social situations. I'll make one small social misstep, and blow it out of proportion, and it completely decimates my sense of social competency and it eats me up for the rest of the night. Or sometimes I'm feeling irritable/tired, and don't have the energy to deal with people, and they think I'm snuffing them. And it's not just that. I have a hard time keeping in contact with friends, and my natural tendency is to be alone. So when I do hang out with my friends, it's often always on my own terms. This makes me feel sort of guilty, because I'm not just using them, and I do actually value them... I just find it very hard to maintain consistent contact with anyone. But part of me finds this very annoying, and wishes it wasn't a problem in the first place.

    Social things can just be too complicated, and they often make me feel inferior/incompetent, and then I feel like fleeing to a deserted island somewhere to drown in my feelings of self-loathing for not being absolutely perfect in something. Being sociable isn't hard. I'm actually pretty sociable, for how much of an introvert I am. Sometimes it goes well, and sometimes it doesn't. But when it doesn't go well, and I respect the person I'm speaking to, I seriously take my mistakes to heart... it's pretty lame.

    Quote Originally Posted by Veneti View Post
    Whats there to be inferior about? The only thing that may be inferior is that you don't fit the traditional stereotype of the social outgoing person who doesn't think much. The most constructive thing you can do is to improve any weaknesses you have. Most things in life are a function of self confidence, always be prepared to fail, if you aren't failing say 20% of the time then you aren't pushing the boundary hard enough.
    Yeah, you're right. But it seems to be deeply patterned into me. I can just relate it to a lot of things about myself, when I look back. It wasn't really something I just discovered. It's always sort of been like this. I know I've always been extremely over-sensitive to social things, and so I've always been quite aware of how I differ from others. I feel like it's been emphasized by others quite often, when I was younger, and since I was more sensitive, I was always all too aware of their judgments of me. As a kid, you just sort of accept that they have to be right, and I am a weirdo, since you don't know any better.. After a while, you realize the implied meaning behind "you're weird!" isn't exactly positive. I more or less got used to this, as a kid. And I more or less stopped expecting to be understood/appreciated by others. And after a while I realized that most of the problems I stumbled with, "normal" people would do with ease, and rather than being the odd one out and earning ridicule all the time for my unconventional competencies, I'd rather just blend in. At least, that's sort of along the lines of what I thought as a kid.

    I don't care that much now, because I'm older and I realize most people are ill informed or ignorant. I'm definitely proud of my individual merits. But for as many areas I am competent in, there are two or three "normal" areas of life I am painfully underdeveloped or infantile in.

    I'm not saying I think the alternative ("normalcy") is better. Society, or my peers can just have a way of making me feel very inferior, sometimes. And it's something I've grown used to, since I've never really fit in anywhere.

    And there are some other things that can annoy me. For one, my very serious outlook can hinder my ability to have fun or joke around with people. And then people start thinking I'm "the man" and are going to narc them out or something, when really it's the complete opposite. "Normal" people usually don't have these problems. I can just be ridiculously preoccupied with this whole lame "competency" thing. Frankly, some of my problems (or associated INTJ problems) strike me as very ridiculous and devoid of reason/logic. Like a part of me doesn't even understand why it should be a problem, which sort of makes it harder to fix.

    The inferiority complex thing was also somewhat of a side-point, not so related to my type. I was always somewhat of a gender-outcast/queer kid, I'm very familiar with the idea of being an anomaly. Though, granted, the majority of such thinking is self-imposed. But I actually sort of think the whole self-imposed problem can be a serious problem area for INTJ's in general. At least it is for me.

  5. #105
    Content. Content? DigitalMethod's Avatar
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    I try to express my emotions but I cannot very well until I can make at a little logic with them. Even after I make some sense of them I can't express the logic very well to other people because of absolutely zero extroverted skills.

    If I cannot make any logic about my emotions then I really cannot tell anyone about them, let alone make other people understand them.

    And then when I get an idea fixed in my head I will ponder on it almost obsessively, I will think of all the bad things that could happen and never really think of any good things that could happen, I just think of the bad so I can try to not make them happen, but that gets me depressed because all I am thinking about is "bad" outcomes. What if isn't just a question in my life, it's a freaking code I live by.
    "The life of the individual has meaning only insofar as it aids in making the life of every living thing nobler and more beautiful."
    - Albert Einstein

  6. #106
    Don't Judge Me! Haphazard's Avatar
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    It's kind of funny when INTJs try to get into a field that's normally dominated by NFs, like writing and stuff. Even if they have the skill and sensitivity, their work still sticks out as being 'different.'

    Umm. Communication is difficult.
    -Carefully taking sips from the Fire Hose of Knowledge

  7. #107
    Senior Member sriv's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Haphazard View Post
    It's kind of funny when INTJs try to get into a field that's normally dominated by NFs, like writing and stuff. Even if they have the skill and sensitivity, their work still sticks out as being 'different.'

    Umm. Communication is difficult.
    Or psychology, sociology, and telecommunications. Rofl .
    Reyson: ...If you were to change your ways, I'm sure we could rebuild the relationship the two of us once shared.

    Naesala: Oh no, that I could never do. You see, humans are essential to the fulfillment of my ambitions.

    Reyson: You've changed, Naesala. If this is the path you've chosen, I've nothing left to say.

  8. #108
    Senior Member INTJMom's Avatar
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    Interesting how so many "haters" in this thread are INTJs.
    Man, we ARE hard on ourselves.

  9. #109
    Senior Member sriv's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by INTJMom View Post
    Interesting how so many "haters" in this thread are INTJs.
    Man, we ARE hard on ourselves.
    No one gives a damn about us. We will use this to our advantage in due time.
    Reyson: ...If you were to change your ways, I'm sure we could rebuild the relationship the two of us once shared.

    Naesala: Oh no, that I could never do. You see, humans are essential to the fulfillment of my ambitions.

    Reyson: You've changed, Naesala. If this is the path you've chosen, I've nothing left to say.

  10. #110
    Resident Snot-Nose GZA's Avatar
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    INTJ's have an inflated ego. That may be their biggest weakness. I think it causes many of them to do sort of manipulativeish things like try to mask being wrong with a "thats what I was aiming for" or "I knew that would happen" type excuse to avoid simply being wrong, but it doesn't really work.

    Another thing I dislike is how some INTJ's use people for their own little schemes and then may cast them aside (I suspect this is only the unhealthy INTJ's). I also don't like INTJ's who are Howard Roark wannabes, because he was a difficult and in many ways stupid, self absorbed asshole who isn't worth imitating and I'm not even sure if I'll finish that book

    But I wouldn't call myself a hater of them, so I'm not sure if I truely belong here.

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