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[MBTI General] ISTP or INTP (Ne or Ni)

Istbkleta

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Jun 11, 2011
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452
MBTI Type
ISFP
Enneagram
2
Instinctual Variant
so/sx
Can you explain how you access or jumpstart your Ne? An ISTP goes for a walk outside or does something physical and his/her Se starts becoming very active. What is it that an Ne user has to do?

I ask the question "What could be?" on a subconscious level because it makes me feel good. My Ti helps me put that potential in a logical framework of "how can this technically be done". My weak Fi usually fails to tell me if I should really care, thus leading to "I did it because I could". Most people perceive that is irresponsible or immoral behaviour.

I guess it gives me pleasure to deconstruct logical ideas and potential in a similar way an ISTP would take apart an engine.

Perhaps it's better to ask an aux Ne user because mine comes less realized and more instinctual - I've been training since I can remember. People who've put more conscious effort are usually better teachers to my experience.




How do you engage and make Se fit in with society? I've noticed ISTPs sometimes get physical too much.

In the forest walk I'd be walking in some fantasy forest where anything could be possible. I would get really energized about coming up with a plan about realizing a possibility I've seen. I'd be happy to do it if it takes less time and allows for shoot-from-the-hip action. (Warning: This is pure Ne with a slave Ti. It doesn't exist in a pure form)

What already is used to be very boring to me. It took me real acts of will and training to learn to appreciate the immediate environment.
 

AuroraBorealis

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Joined
Mar 29, 2012
Messages
30
MBTI Type
ISTP
Enneagram
6w5
How do you engage and make Se fit in with society? I've noticed ISTPs sometimes get physical too much.

Using Se is just...pure joy. The incredible rush of energy is beautiful. I've never been tempted to use drugs because of the natural high it gives me. It just makes me so unusually happy, like I really appreciate being alive. I especially love being in nature. I used to think I had Ne because of the creative energy I got--fragments of poems and pictures would pop into my head because of the stimulation. But Se is activated by physical stimulus and makes you want to start cartwheeling around the vicinity with happiness. It's very childish, in a way; it's why SPs can seem so irrespnsible. I never realized how much I loved it until I started writing this post, lol.

But it is rather disruptive in real life, especially if your grounding Ni function and your Fe function aren't developed. Sometimes the energy can manifest itself in recklessness and argumentativeness. If you ever try to stop an ISTP with an overactive Se and Fe, beware. S/he might kill you or rip you to absolute shreds emotionally. But a well-developed ISTP, well...they're in for a hell of a ride WHOOOOOO :D
 

Poki

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Dec 4, 2008
Messages
10,436
MBTI Type
STP
Instinctual Variant
sx/so
Right, that is because they are shooting at something. Ne is not shooting. We just notices things, think we have an answer, and continuously test our answer. Ni starts with a goal, finds the best path, know they have the answer, and then moves on to the next goal.

LMAO...yup, dominant Ni...not ISTP Ni though ;) We are doers, so we apply, check, verify, and actually know if our Ni path works.
 

StephMC

Controlled Mischief
Joined
Mar 2, 2009
Messages
1,044
MBTI Type
ISTP
Enneagram
9w8
Instinctual Variant
sp/sx
Using Se is just...pure joy. The incredible rush of energy is beautiful. I've never been tempted to use drugs because of the natural high it gives me. It just makes me so unusually happy, like I really appreciate being alive. I especially love being in nature. I used to think I had Ne because of the creative energy I got--fragments of poems and pictures would pop into my head because of the stimulation. But Se is activated by physical stimulus and makes you want to start cartwheeling around the vicinity with happiness. It's very childish, in a way; it's why SPs can seem so irrespnsible. I never realized how much I loved it until I started writing this post, lol.

But it is rather disruptive in real life, especially if your grounding Ni function and your Fe function aren't developed. Sometimes the energy can manifest itself in recklessness and argumentativeness. If you ever try to stop an ISTP with an overactive Se and Fe, beware. S/he might kill you or rip you to absolute shreds emotionally. But a well-developed ISTP, well...they're in for a hell of a ride WHOOOOOO :D

I'm glad we could recruit you ;)
 

KDude

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Jan 26, 2010
Messages
8,243
I ran across this earlier.. it's just another wholistic description, but I can't find a lot I'd disagree with. I might as well be INTP too. Maybe there's more similarity than I thought. It's the first time I've seen INTP described as working in bursts and using their Ne in a sort of "speed reading" sort of way (I know Ne dominants are like that). I always thought of them as more complicated.

http://www.prelude-team.com/ca/types/INTP
 

pv255

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Jan 16, 2012
Messages
121
I ran across this earlier.. it's just another wholistic description, but I can't find a lot I'd disagree with. I might as well be INTP too. Maybe there's more similarity than I thought. It's the first time I've seen INTP described as working in bursts and using their Ne in a sort of "speed reading" sort of way (I know Ne dominants are like that). I always thought of them as more complicated.

http://www.prelude-team.com/ca/types/INTP

We're the same but different. The thought process and mannerism are similar, but the data we gather leads us to very different conclusions.
Speed reading? What do you mean?
 

StephMC

Controlled Mischief
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Mar 2, 2009
Messages
1,044
MBTI Type
ISTP
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9w8
Instinctual Variant
sp/sx
I think he means the way you speed read -- jumping around to get a fuller picture.
 
S

Society

Guest
first of all let's clear one thing: the relative placement of your Ne nor Ni won't make you intelligent - there's sensors who are more intelligent then me, there's intuitives who are a dumber then squirrels on extacy, there are Ti and Te doms that couldn't follow logic through if it strangled them by the nose, and there are Fe & Fi doms who have the emotional intelligence of 2 years old bipolar psychopaths with toret syndrom. the preferance isn't indicative of the strenghs as much as it is indicative of awareness.

now to your issue:
I find myself to be more of a realist and a "here and now" person, though I don't know if that's because of my own doing. I read many books which discussed the topic of appreciating what you have and living for each day, and I was deeply influenced by the arguments they presented. I don't always have that mindset, but I'm focused on the present because I have been taught that there might not always be a tomorrow.
you have just described adopting an Se attitude based on an Si-Ti origin. you have practically made it your own tradition to live in the here and now as a learned behavior, which is funny and awesome in the same time.

i find that tertiary and inferior functions are often used to acknowledge but not captivate in one's awareness. for example, i often acknowledge the Fe reality around me - my tertiary function - and yet will be fine with it being broken and messy, and to a lesser extent, i will be inclined to be aware of the value in rituals and traditions - my inferior Si - but seek it within in very limited amounts.

to me it sounds like you have tertiary Si rather then an auxilary Se, which indicates INTP.
 

pv255

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I think he means the way you speed read -- jumping around to get a fuller picture.
I read situations but there is nothing speedy about it. haha
I guess once I fully understand a concept, which takes awhile. I can reapply the concept quickly to new situations if I feel like it appropriate.

you have just described adopting an Se attitude based on an Si-Ti origin. you have practically made it your own tradition to live in the here and now as a learned behavior, which is funny and awesome in the same time.

Interesting, you could be taught something you already know, right?

Something I've noticed about ISTP's is that they are acutely aware of their body. What I mean is when something is off, they notice it. For instance, when they have dry-skin, they notice it. And it annoys them enough for them to do something about it. When I have dry skin, I am oblivious to it until someone says something or it starts hurting. Even then getting lotion gets placed 2nd or 3rd in the priority list. Random... They are also picky eaters.
 

KDude

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Something I've noticed about ISTP's is that they are acutely aware of their body. What I mean is when something is off, they notice it. For instance, when they have dry-skin, they notice it. And it annoys them enough for them to do something about it. When I have dry skin, I am oblivious to it until someone says something or it starts hurting. Then thought of getting lotion gets placed 2nd or 3rd in the priority list. Random...

Yeah, I think I'm pretty aware of body related things. From dry skin to more vague matters..like when I'm about to go over my comfort threshold. I don't overindulge. I hardly ever overdo things in work or when drinking alcohol, for example. I know when to hold back, and jump in again.
 

alcea rosea

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ENFP
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7w6
According to my experience ISTP's are more into this day (Se), this moment and INTP's live in the future (Ne). ISTP's are quite aware and alert of things happening around them (Se), INTP's are not. ISTP's (T+S) are less interested in abstract theories than INTP's (T+N). ISTP's are more in tune with their bodies (Se) than INTP's. ISTP's are much more prone to notice details than INTP's. There might not be any difference in logical thinking (both probably get pretty high scores in intelligence tests that measure logical thinking) because both have dominant Ti, but the interest is usually divided to the concrete with ISTP's and abstract with INTP's (not always of course). Both types can be pretty hard to know.
 

RaptorWizard

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According to my experience ISTP's are more into this day (Se), this moment and INTP's live in the future (Ne). ISTP's are quite aware and alert of things happening around them (Se), INTP's are not. ISTP's (T+S) are less interested in abstract theories than INTP's (T+N). ISTP's are more in tune with their bodies (Se) than INTP's. ISTP's are much more prone to notice details than INTP's. There might not be any difference in logical thinking (both probably get pretty high scores in intelligence tests that measure logical thinking) because both have dominant Ti, but the interest is usually divided to the concrete with ISTP's and abstract with INTP's (not always of course). Both types can be pretty hard to know.

An ISTP in a TiNi loop may be far more abstract than an INTP in a TiSi loop.
 

Poki

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So where does Ni get the initial outside data to start off with? Se?

Just watching the world around us. Instead of assuming how things work we want to find the actual reasons. When others just "know" we want to be positive so we dig deeper. As we build our knowledge base we can cross check against whats known and draw parallels. We know the parallels are fuzzy, but it paints a general picture. I tend to shy away from exact or concrete as everything is generally different shades of grey, not just black and white..."defined with hard edges".

An ISTP in a TiNi loop may be far more abstract than an INTP in a TiSi loop.

An ISTP in an NiTi loop plays with concepts, where as an INTP in a TiSi loop plays with details.
 

KDude

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Would it be valid to say INTPs have a bigger "pinnochio" quality? If that sounds bad, just replace it with Commander Data. Specifically with feelings and socializing. I suspect that NTs, by virtue of being less attached to their social surroundings (both Ti and Ne), might be compelled to understand it more. Less preconceptions about it. And they have an innocent "outsider" quality that analyzes these situations and sort of aims to please or update their behavior. While STPs are more confident about the surroundings, but instead of appeasing, might lean more towards criticism or rebellion (not to say they'll neatly fall under these categories.. everyone might have times of doing a little of both). It seems to me that INTPs around here wanted to be included socially a little more. More aspiring F like qualities. While I'm more aggravated by the things I see. It's dawning on me how much I suppress in order to be more socially mobile (and I barely do that.. it's exhausting.. not "fascinating").
 

Poki

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This is usually a common problem for most lead Ti-ers new to Psychological Types. I find that I neither fit the typical ISTP or INTP mold, and therefore am very confused about which type I am. The way I see it is: I am either a very smart, creative, and intuitive ISTP, or a dull, creative-lacking INTP.

Maybe your neither.
 

RaptorWizard

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Both ITPs are very much into what makes stuff work, are loners, generally unconscientious, deep-thinking, and uber-logical. Distinguishing the 2 can indeed be tough, but [MENTION=17164]iNtrovert[/MENTION] told me before that ISTPs would focus on putting the operation into practice, whereas INTPs would lay the foundations and create an architectural model for future developments. Based on that, I could be either ITP, since I believe we shoudl strive to master the creation, and it won't be put into practice immediately, but nonetheless it would be used in a utilitarian way. A lot of people think I could be ISTP with strong Ni though, so I could be a combination of the two.
 

great_bay

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INTP's think about possibilities. ISTP's think about details of the external world. I always thought ISTP's were really interesting to interact with but they never care about my Ne side.

Okay here's an example what I mean. INTP is at the lake and he looks at the water. I would be thinking about where the water came from which is from outer-space. Water assembled 12 billion years ago. I don't have to think about the possibilities. I can revert to introverted sensing and think about the details. ISTP's think about the external details of the water and how it looks like. This is the difference between Ne and Se.
 
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