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  1. #21
    Senior Member sriv's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by heart View Post
    Feelers tend to.
    Not completely.

    I love these arguments we get into.

    Hands off.
    Reyson: ...If you were to change your ways, I'm sure we could rebuild the relationship the two of us once shared.

    Naesala: Oh no, that I could never do. You see, humans are essential to the fulfillment of my ambitions.

    Reyson: You've changed, Naesala. If this is the path you've chosen, I've nothing left to say.

  2. #22
    Enigma Nadir's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by sriv View Post
    What cause? Give em the old blunt knife remark here and there. Life can be really exciting!
    Sure. Here are a few. You've come to this thread and posted something of little relevance to the original post, and then proceeded to "defend" your post with one-liners, against people who are more interested in your motivations in doing so rather than your opinions themselves. That in itself wouldn't be a problem, but I've seen you do this to a few more threads. You seem to be looking to garner some attention and have your posts be considered as significant. Or not. However, my opinion is that you're sort of failing either way, because I sense nothing behind what's posted -- they taste like empty words from here. IMO, your probably real-life friend Haphazard has much better ideas regarding getting thoughts or opinions across.

    Cheers, and good night!
    Not really.

  3. #23
    heart on fire
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    Quote Originally Posted by sriv View Post
    I love these arguments we get into.
    I find your choice of terms a bit bombastic. I would say we were discussing, not arguing.

  4. #24
    Senior Member sriv's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nadir View Post
    Sure. Here are a few. You've come to this thread and posted something of little relevance to the original post, and then proceeded to "defend" your post with one-liners, against people who are more interested in your motivations in doing so rather than your opinions themselves. That in itself wouldn't be a problem, but I've seen you do this to a few more threads. You seem to be looking to garner some attention and have your posts be considered as significant. Or not. However, my opinion is that you're sort of failing either way, because I sense nothing behind what's posted -- they taste like empty words from here. IMO, your probably real-life friend Haphazard has much better ideas regarding getting thoughts or opinions across.

    Cheers, and good night!
    No, not really. LOL, I seem to be succeeding in being annoying.

    Good point. I like discussing better.
    Reyson: ...If you were to change your ways, I'm sure we could rebuild the relationship the two of us once shared.

    Naesala: Oh no, that I could never do. You see, humans are essential to the fulfillment of my ambitions.

    Reyson: You've changed, Naesala. If this is the path you've chosen, I've nothing left to say.

  5. #25
    Senior Member ThatsWhatHeSaid's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by the_STRATOSPHERE View Post
    I realized that my theories were failing. Moreover, I realized that I couldn't understand where she, or anyone else was coming from, how they felt. What her experience was. In trying to understand her goodness, I was undermining it by objectifying her.

    I want to "feel people out" now. I want to empathize...but I don't think I can. I can't help but fit them in some sort of framework, and it makes me feel ashamed that I have become that alienated from humanity. I feel trapped in all of my theories and wonder if its too late.

    I wonder what my pursuit of the "truth" has made me? Less or more human? What have I become? The truth has led me to a truth that defies its own persuit....

    Any help from any personality, is greatful...
    In order to really empathize, you need to drop all your theories and worrying and just do your best to be sincere and listen. That's really it. The theories can come later, but for now, you just need to do your best and not make a big deal out of fucking up or not being perfect, or what happens if you mess up. It's fine to feel ashamed, as it's fine to be whoever it is that makes you feel ashamed. But do your best to suspend all those thoughts while you listen to someone. There's no great trick; it's just practice and sincerity.

  6. #26
    Protocol Droid Athenian200's Avatar
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    I doubt I'm the right person to help you, but here's my two cents.

    You might be best off seeking to deal with people who are interested in the same things you are (and hence probably think in similar ways to you), because their emotions will be most similar to yours, and you will feel the most natural empathy for them.

    She may or may not be a good person, but that doesn't mean you should feel guilty for not understanding where she's coming from. She's different, her mind just doesn't go to the same places. She doesn't need to understand something in order to value it. So she probably doesn't understand where you're coming from either, if that makes you feel better.

    What I don't understand is why you feel a need to participate in humanity as a whole, including the ones you can't relate to all, and not just be among friends. I would think most people seek out friends they can relate to, not people who work differently and make them uncomfortable.

    Also, you might be confusing goodness with truth. A person without truth can be good (which I think might be what you witnessed), and a person without goodness can know truths. They are not the same thing.

    Her goodness may not be something that would help you. She may not consciously understand why she is good, and thus would not be able to explain it to you. This means that you would not understand it, and if you cannot understand it, you cannot learn it from her. What is the value of understanding where they are coming from (on an emotional level) if it cannot teach you anything? And there lies the answer to your question... intellectually, none. However, your humanity is here. You have a desire for empathy/connection that is causing you to want this connection regardless of its intellectual uselessness. You recognize goodness, and you wish to feel a connection to it. Just as many wish to see/touch a famous person, believing they are good. It does them no good if they do so, of course, but they still wish it. So what you feel is... quite human. Whether that's a good thing, of course, is something I'd reserve judgment on. Human feelings aren't always good ones. Or useful ones. So we have three concepts here... human, good, and useful. I ask you, which is your ideal?

    One idea to comfort you if you doubt that you are human enough... if you see a person in pain, crying, and you look at their face, does this cause any emotional pain to arise in you, or do you just feel nothing? If it's the former, you're definitely as human as anyone else, and have nothing to be ashamed of.

    Finally, I think you need to ask this person questions about how they feel, even ask them to speculate on where their feelings come from. That's really the only way to come close to knowing (rather than speculating about) how someone feels, and I think most people like to have another person take interest in their feelings. I don't think questions will spoil anything as much as you think. Isn't speculating about them like they weren't even there to ask even more objectifying than asking them openly?

  7. #27
    Furry Critter with Claws Kiddo's Avatar
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    I don't think I have any good advice to give since I seem to be going through a transitional phase in my personality. Some things I have learned through my transition is it is dangerous to make assumptions or try to categorize people and it is wise to embrace differences and contradictions because there is at least a little truth in everything. I don't know if that helps, but those are some of my recent thoughts.
    Quote Originally Posted by Silently Honest View Post
    OMNi: Wisdom at the cost of Sanity.

  8. #28
    @.~*virinaĉo*~.@ Totenkindly's Avatar
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    Other people have said good stuff. I'm exhausted, so maybe I will respond more later.

    But I have stood years ago where you stand now. You are about to enter a new stage of your life, where you will start seeing the world differently ... not just how some other people see it (people who you might have previously dismissed) but also placing your own INTP mindset into a different context.

    Do be open, don't be afraid, and jump in. It might be exhilarating at times, scary at other times, but you are going to expand your horizons a great deal and it is for the best, long-term. Enjoy the ride.

    "Hey Capa -- We're only stardust." ~ "Sunshine"

    “Pleasure to me is wonder—the unexplored, the unexpected, the thing that is hidden and the changeless thing that lurks behind superficial mutability. To trace the remote in the immediate; the eternal in the ephemeral; the past in the present; the infinite in the finite; these are to me the springs of delight and beauty.” ~ H.P. Lovecraft

  9. #29
    Junior Member the_STRATOSPHERE's Avatar
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    Thank you all for your thoughts...

    I think I am doing a better job at it, mainly I am working on asking questions related to what the other person wants to talk about, instead of questions I want to ask someone based on certain data I want to obtain. I try to ask more open ended questions, talk less, ask for details, etc.

    I think empathizing can be learned. I think some people are born with it intuitively, but once you know how someone thinks, and what they're reactions to things are, you can hold that construct in your mind if need be.

    Also, I think what I need to do or learn how to do is learn how to occasionally turn the analysis, theory building machine OFF. Not necessarily change myself, but allow my analysis to be put on hold so I can step outside myself every once and awhile.


    Thanks again...

  10. #30
    Senior Member sriv's Avatar
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    Why? Analyzing is cool.
    Reyson: ...If you were to change your ways, I'm sure we could rebuild the relationship the two of us once shared.

    Naesala: Oh no, that I could never do. You see, humans are essential to the fulfillment of my ambitions.

    Reyson: You've changed, Naesala. If this is the path you've chosen, I've nothing left to say.

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