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  1. #1
    Blind Guardian Haven's Avatar
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    Default NTs: help me out here

    I need advice, but I'm not really sure what to ask, so um here

    Do you feel like you're a burden to others? What makes you feel like a burden to others? What makes you not feel like a burden to others?

    If you need to withdraw from the world (is there another way to put it?), when should I leave you alone, and when should I not leave you alone? Or maybe, how do I leave you alone without actually leaving you alone?

    Females specifically: Your thoughts on closeness in relationships. Yes? No? How much time apart do you need? Assuming I'll never really understand you, what should I know?
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  2. #2
    my floof is luxury Wind Up Rex's Avatar
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    Why have you come to the NTs with this?
    And so long as you haven’t experienced this: to die and so to grow,
    you are only a troubled guest on the dark earth

  3. #3
    Analytical Dreamer Coriolis's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Haven View Post
    Do you feel like you're a burden to others? What makes you feel like a burden to others? What makes you not feel like a burden to others?
    Hell, no. Why should I? Others are a burden to me. I rarely feel like a burden, and usually it's quite the opposite. I can see how to solve people's problems, though whether they take me up on that is their choice. The only exception is when I am ill enough to need actual assistance.

    Quote Originally Posted by Haven View Post
    If you need to withdraw from the world (is there another way to put it?), when should I leave you alone, and when should I not leave you alone? Or maybe, how do I leave you alone without actually leaving you alone?
    If I need to engage with the world I do so, and quite effectively. Solitude is probably my preferred, or default state. If you don't have a good reason to interact with me, then do leave me alone. As for the last question, sharing the same space while engaged in separate activities comes close. My SO and I do this frequently.
    I've been called a criminal, a terrorist, and a threat to the known universe. But everything you were told is a lie. The truth is, they've taken our freedom, our home, and our future. The time has come for all humanity to take a stand...

  4. #4
    Senior Member think2much's Avatar
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    Anyone just dislike ESFJ in general? The way they come off annoys the hell out of me.

    I knew 2 esfj in my life and guess they were my "friends" but I just couldn't connect with them. Anything they said just sounded so stupid and unimportant.

    well I shouldn't be the one to talk though since SJ usually contribute to society and is well respected around peers.

    Why are you asking on NT selection

  5. #5
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    These questions are weird. First, why should any type feel like being a burden? And second, the question about withdrawing... I would understand that being targeted to introverted NTs or introverts in general but why on earth to NTs in general?
    INTJ, HSP, 1w9 or tritype 154, sx/sp

  6. #6
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    Hey, don't shoo away someone who tries to understand other types.

    The way I see them, SJs value themselves depending on how much they do for society (it's more a question of duty than altruism). Therefore they can easily feel like being a burden when they don't do enough for others.
    I, as an INTP, am way too detached from society to feel like a burden. Duty and patriotism don't make sense to me - why should I help some people I barely know? My friends are another matter, of course.

    We tend to withdraw from the material world, not from the world as a whole. We usually welcome anyone who joins us in the world of ideas and theories, as long as they're competent enough in it. You should generally avoid small talk and trivial stuff - we don't care about all the insignificant details that happened to you today. Otherwise we will indeed see you as a burden.

    You can't "leave us alone without really leaving us alone". We need to constantly focus on something and we don't like being interrupted. But this "something" can be you, as long as your conversation is either important or interesting to us.

    Your last line made me curious. Did you meet an NT woman you're interested in? One thing's sure, if you want to become close to an NT you must enter his / her abstract world. We're not emotionally complicated, and we prefer when people are direct and don't play drama games: if you're sure she's an NT, you could for example ask her what she's been thinking about these days, and try to join her in her thoughts.

    If an NT disagrees with what I said, feel free to do so.

  7. #7
    Tier 1 Member LunaLuminosity's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Haven View Post
    Do you feel like you're a burden to others?
    No, I am careful not to let this happen.

    What makes you feel like a burden to others?
    When I become too sick to take care of myself.

    What makes you not feel like a burden to others?
    Pretty much everything else

    If you need to withdraw from the world (is there another way to put it?), when should I leave you alone, and when should I not leave you alone? Or maybe, how do I leave you alone without actually leaving you alone?
    If I need to withdraw from the world it is only because someone or something is really bugging me. If I just calmly disappear, then just let me escape the situation. If I storm out, talking it out might help. I could be mistaken on what you mean by "withdrawing from the world" though.

    Females specifically: Your thoughts on closeness in relationships. Yes? No? How much time apart do you need? Assuming I'll never really understand you, what should I know?
    Closeness really scares me at this point :P I'd probably need a lot of independent time in the beginning so that I don't feel trapped. I guess one of the things to keep in mind is not to expect a "typical" anything

  8. #8
    Superwoman Red Herring's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Haven View Post
    Do you feel like you're a burden to others? What makes you feel like a burden to others? What makes you not feel like a burden to others?
    As an SP first, being independent is a pretty big thing. I was financially dependent on my mother during college and that was a burden. Otherwise, hmm, not really. I tend to keep my problems to myself far too long and usually try to solve everything on my own.

    If you need to withdraw from the world (is there another way to put it?), when should I leave you alone, and when should I not leave you alone? Or maybe, how do I leave you alone without actually leaving you alone?
    Withdrawing is like sleeping, eating and drinking. It is necessary to recharge the batteries, focus on myself, take a deep breath and calmly think things through. So needing a few hours or days for myself doesn't mean I don't like you anymore (also see above re problem solving). However, if there is good evidence that I am withdrawing because I feel bad and am in a downward spiral of depressing thoughts or because I have issues with you, you can show presence. That does not mean pressuring me into talking, it means telling me :"Hey, just so you know, if there is anything I can do - I'm always there for you". I will take you up on that offer if I consider it potentially helpful.

    Females specifically: Your thoughts on closeness in relationships. Yes? No? How much time apart do you need? Assuming I'll never really understand you, what should I know?
    Female INTP here. To me a relationship implies intimate closeness. We have to be able to share anything and be able to be ourselves in front of each other. No games, no drama, just warmth and sincerity between equal adults. We have to be able to trust each other. But I will still need my regular alone time and there will still be issues I will prefer not to discuss unless it becomes really necessary. I will respect you the same way.

    INTPs especially tend to prefer harmony and emotional stability, also somewhat conflict avoident. And you can usually take what we say at face value. So no need for second guessing our motivation or jealousy attacks. Look at our deeds instead of reading things into our absense of words. I know of a INTP-ESFJ relationship that didn't work out because the ESFJ was very insecure and always read bad intentions or lack of sincere interest into the INTPs obliviousness to social rules and conventions and demanded hours and hours of serious relationship talk over and over again about things the INTP considered petty details and mere misunderstandings due to bad communication (let alone that it hurts to be constantly accused of not caring when you actually do care and simply have a diferent way of showing it than your SO). Relationships like that require a lot of work and good will if they are supposed to last.
    Last edited by Red Herring; 02-22-2012 at 06:09 PM.
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  9. #9
    Blind Guardian Haven's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by think2much View Post
    Anyone just dislike ESFJ in general? The way they come off annoys the hell out of me.
    Yes, they can bother me too. I like to think that I'm different, but I can change my type if that would make you feel better.

    Quote Originally Posted by Nales View Post
    Hey, don't shoo away someone who tries to understand other types.

    The way I see them, SJs value themselves depending on how much they do for society (it's more a question of duty than altruism). Therefore they can easily feel like being a burden when they don't do enough for others.
    I, as an INTP, am way too detached from society to feel like a burden. Duty and patriotism don't make sense to me - why should I help some people I barely know? My friends are another matter, of course.
    We're all in this together, man.

    We tend to withdraw from the material world, not from the world as a whole. We usually welcome anyone who joins us in the world of ideas and theories, as long as they're competent enough in it. You should generally avoid small talk and trivial stuff - we don't care about all the insignificant details that happened to you today. Otherwise we will indeed see you as a burden.
    ok, my eyes usually glaze over when this stuff comes up anyway, good to know.

    Your last line made me curious. Did you meet an NT woman you're interested in? One thing's sure, if you want to become close to an NT you must enter his / her abstract world. We're not emotionally complicated, and we prefer when people are direct and don't play drama games: if you're sure she's an NT, you could for example ask her what she's been thinking about these days, and try to join her in her thoughts.
    Yea, she's an NT, but it's hard to tell what kind. She's really outspoken in person, but she's also really good at shutting herself off from the world. Probably some xNTP.

    Quote Originally Posted by LunaLuminosity View Post
    No, I am careful not to let this happen.
    could you elaborate?

    If I need to withdraw from the world it is only because someone or something is really bugging me. If I just calmly disappear, then just let me escape the situation. If I storm out, talking it out might help. I could be mistaken on what you mean by "withdrawing from the world" though.

    Closeness really scares me at this point :P I'd probably need a lot of independent time in the beginning so that I don't feel trapped. I guess one of the things to keep in mind is not to expect a "typical" anything
    Good to know! When you mean "lots of independent time", how much are we talking here? Everyone's different, but when should I start worrying? Keep in mind that I worry a LOT.
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  10. #10
    Honor Thy Inferior Such Irony's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nales View Post
    Hey, don't shoo away someone who tries to understand other types.

    The way I see them, SJs value themselves depending on how much they do for society (it's more a question of duty than altruism). Therefore they can easily feel like being a burden when they don't do enough for others.
    I, as an INTP, am way too detached from society to feel like a burden. Duty and patriotism don't make sense to me - why should I help some people I barely know? My friends are another matter, of course.

    We tend to withdraw from the material world, not from the world as a whole. We usually welcome anyone who joins us in the world of ideas and theories, as long as they're competent enough in it. You should generally avoid small talk and trivial stuff - we don't care about all the insignificant details that happened to you today. Otherwise we will indeed see you as a burden.

    You can't "leave us alone without really leaving us alone". We need to constantly focus on something and we don't like being interrupted. But this "something" can be you, as long as your conversation is either important or interesting to us.

    Your last line made me curious. Did you meet an NT woman you're interested in? One thing's sure, if you want to become close to an NT you must enter his / her abstract world. We're not emotionally complicated, and we prefer when people are direct and don't play drama games: if you're sure she's an NT, you could for example ask her what she's been thinking about these days, and try to join her in her thoughts.

    If an NT disagrees with what I said, feel free to do so.
    You make some very good points.
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