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View Poll Results: Who is better at manipulating

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  • INTJ

    11 33.33%
  • ENTP

    22 66.67%
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  1. #51
    Member Valis's Avatar
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    As an INTJ I think I'm quite effective at playing a 'long game'. I openly admit to colleagues that people will get the better of me in the short term as I don't have the wit they have. However, I set myself medium and long term goals and doggedly work towards achieving them. I tend to do this covertly in the background, on a one-to-one level, usually winning over individuals with the power of my arguments and vision. I have effectively influenced a number of policies at work without anyone identifying them with me (this is good as some of them are quite unpopular such as including performance measures in appraisals, re-writing job descriptions for a layer of management for example). It is quite amusing as staff subsequently come to me to complain about measures they think others have introduced. However, I try to be very positive and manipulate people for the good of the organisation. I generally like to motivate others and win them over but have sometimes resorted to machiavellian tactics to undermine, discredit or worse seek to constructively dismiss people. However, if you were to ask anyone I work with, they'd say I was a nice guy

    I should also say, that I almost never need to lie as I'm not very good at it. I just with-hold information.

  2. #52
    Senior Member Moonstone3's Avatar
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    INTJs are more covert ops, we infiltrate the system and are prepared when and if the time comes to destroy it from the top down However, that doesn't mean we do this all the time. It's like an 'in case' scenario for me.
    What is normal to one, is incomprehensible to another.

    ALL anger in this world stems from a lack of control.


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  3. #53
    Senior Member Moonstone3's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Valis View Post
    As an INTJ I think I'm quite effective at playing a 'long game'. I openly admit to colleagues that people will get the better of me in the short term as I don't have the wit they have. However, I set myself medium and long term goals and doggedly work towards achieving them. I tend to do this covertly in the background, on a one-to-one level, usually winning over individuals with the power of my arguments and vision. I have effectively influenced a number of policies at work without anyone identifying them with me (this is good as some of them are quite unpopular such as including performance measures in appraisals, re-writing job descriptions for a layer of management for example). It is quite amusing as staff subsequently come to me to complain about measures they think others have introduced. However, I try to be very positive and manipulate people for the good of the organisation. I generally like to motivate others and win them over but have sometimes resorted to machiavellian tactics to undermine, discredit or worse seek to constructively dismiss people. However, if you were to ask anyone I work with, they'd say I was a nice guy
    .
    I've been there. I price all the jewelry for the store I work at and customers will say some crazy stuff like. 'These prices are too high!.' Inside, I am insulted, but a retort of competitors prices usually shuts them up. Also, I've squealed on a few employees and their badmouthing the management. They were soon fired, as my boss has an incredibly high ego that doesn't tolerate taking any blame.
    I would say INTJs can read and assess the people involved in a situation, play out the possible causes and effects and decide which path to take.
    As far as the long term winner, yes I am the tortoise. I can outlast the bullshit. As far as quick wit, it depends on how upset I am. I feel I am slow to respond at times because I can't fathom that someone would be such and idiot/ass. It blows my mind.
    What is normal to one, is incomprehensible to another.

    ALL anger in this world stems from a lack of control.


    All of reality bows to the illusion of life and death.

  4. #54
    I'm not Trunks
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    Quote Originally Posted by Uytuun View Post
    Maybe the real question here is "Can they create them faster?"
    You mean create the problem?
    In that case, they are better.
    Since I can see the problem from above, I don't think I need to feed the trolls (just kidding) I know what they want.

  5. #55
    I'm not Trunks
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    [QUOTE=Coriolis;1787864]INTJs don't lie. We just dispense the truth in a controlled manner.[/QUOTES

    I don't lie, I just being blunt and honest. I don't know about the controlled manner, I just doing it naturally.

  6. #56
    Senior Member Winds of Thor's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by gmanyo View Post
    Actually, this might be true. I think ENTPs are just really good at convincing people to do shit. Not sure about INTJs.
    ENTPs are engineers of human relationships. It's common knowledge for those who study MBTI to any certainty.

    Look, not every ENTP is trying to manipulate everyone. Persuasion isn't manipulation.

    Having said that, everyone has desired outcomes they would like to see..and to some degree, people try to manipulate.
    "..And the eight and final rule: If this is your first time at Fight Club, you have to fight."
    'Men are meant to be with women. The rest is perversion and mental illness.'

  7. #57
    Senior Member Winds of Thor's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by yenom View Post
    What is the difference? How does it feel like to be manipulated by an INTJ?
    How is different from ENTP manipulation?
    The Poll is insidious. Better? As if it's a good thing!?
    "..And the eight and final rule: If this is your first time at Fight Club, you have to fight."
    'Men are meant to be with women. The rest is perversion and mental illness.'

  8. #58
    Senior Member Winds of Thor's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by entropie View Post
    I think the whole manipulation discussion is bullshit. I never conciously manipulated anyone in all my life. I have a personality and this influences people all around me in my daily life that's why its called social life. I am a motivator and people get inspired by my ideas and thats not because I sell em charming, its because I thought them thru beforehand and made sure they make sense.

    Man forges his own destiny and people who think other people manipulate people have in my opinion issues with their own personal integrity and personality. I am carried away easily by good ideas of other people but if they are able to manipulate me or trick me into something is my own personal choice in the end. And if I am not aware of the moment in which that happens, I have a problem and its not only the other people who are evil.
    Yea..Exactly. If you're going to be manipulated, it's your half of the involvement you decided to engage and go along with.

    Do football players accuse the opposing defense when their players block the passer? Haha no..if you don't like it don't play football.
    "..And the eight and final rule: If this is your first time at Fight Club, you have to fight."
    'Men are meant to be with women. The rest is perversion and mental illness.'

  9. #59
    Alexander the Terrible yenom's Avatar
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    I might have to take back what I said.

    The greatest strength of INTJ is their secrecy and their above average intelligence.
    But their biggest weakness is their J is too obvious , or their Te is too strong.
    You can't manipulate people with a strong Te, and INTJs suck at hiding their Te.

    If you want to manipulate people, you have to make them believe they have freedom of choice or action, rahter than being a chess piece.
    But if the J (or Te) is too strong, then it becomes too obvious.
    when you start ordering people around and go into they XNTJ mode, the manipulation will become obvious.
    Ps are better than Js at manipulating, because they can shrug off if things don't go according to plan. but Js (esp strong Js) get anal retentive when things aren't going as planned.
    All you have to do is tell an INTJ "I don't feel like it" and it will throw them off the tanget.
    Maybe INTJs can only manipulate another strong J, like ENTJ.

    P manipulation is more subtle, you don't know what they are up to. When you are manipulated by a J, you will eventually get the feeling they are forcing their agenda on you.

    I(introversion) are better manipulators than Es.
    But P (perciever) are better manipulators than Js, because P manipulation is way more subtle. They let you believe you are free, while secretly pulling the strings.

    I'll quote Gothe

    " None are more hopelessly enslaved than those who falsely believe they are free. "

    and INTJs suck at doing this.

    I mean I have to compliment your type for being great at mind chess games and all, but your inability to let things go with the flow will be your downfall.

    I admit, you might be way more intelligent than us ( i don't make the classical mistake like other entps thinking we are the smartest and the greatest), but your Te is your achilles heel.
    (a piece of advise for you, if you want to play manipulation games with us Ps , you better hide your Te well)

    I guess we'll have to see in real life what you are capable of, and I will always find out what i want to know.
    The fear of poverty turns people into slaves of money.

    "In this Caesar there are many Mariuses"~Sulla

    Conquer your inner demons first before you conquer the world.

  10. #60
    Analytical Dreamer Coriolis's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by yenom View Post
    I mean I have to compliment your type for being great at mind chess games and all, but your inability to let things go with the flow will be your downfall.
    I don't often resort to deliberate manipulation, but can tell you the account here errs in assuming that the INTJ envisions only one possible way the manipulation might play out. INTJs are great contingency planners, so when I do try something like this, I plan for a variety of responses from my "subject". "I don't feel like it" is an obvious one. It is a bit like chess: I can anticipate possible moves the other person might make, and plan for each one. Of course I can sometimes be surprised if they come up with something I didn't anticipate, but this doesn't happen that often. Actually, acting like I don't care is a great default response to the truly unexpected.
    I've been called a criminal, a terrorist, and a threat to the known universe. But everything you were told is a lie. The truth is, they've taken our freedom, our home, and our future. The time has come for all humanity to take a stand...

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