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View Poll Results: Who is better at manipulating

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  • INTJ

    11 33.33%
  • ENTP

    22 66.67%
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  1. #41
    Senior Member ceecee's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by mia_infp View Post
    Hehe, yeah. And the INTJs I know are terrible at lying - or maybe I just know them too well.
    I'm terrible at lying.
    I like to rock n' roll all night and *part* of every day. I usually have errands... I can only rock from like 1-3.

  2. #42
    meh Salomé's Avatar
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    No competition. INTJs can't manipulate their way out of a cardboard box.
    Quote Originally Posted by Ivy View Post
    Gosh, the world looks so small from up here on my high horse of menstruation.

  3. #43
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    Quote Originally Posted by entropie View Post
    I think you have a very good point here but I disagree with your conclusion.

    It's indeed the case that as a Ne dominant, life is anything but orderly. While a Te dom would maybe show integrity by rigorously sticking to his opinion, to an Ne the World is always open to reevaluation and decisions are based on data that flows in. I often dont recognize at work how I change my opinion and that I have with only 2 days in between suddenly the opposite opinion towards an issue. I dont do this on purpose and I need other people to remind me, I am often angry at myself when I notice this happening but it does happen and I have to live with it. On the feelings part I disagree. I as an entp have an exceptionally well rich inner feeling World, I am just often oblivious to it. Living together with a dominant Feeler helps you getting deeper in touch with your emotions and learning things about morale and ethics, which you value and she of course places a great importance on. In that regards entps to me are strong empaths, who not only can feel with others but see the dynamic of a situation as well. That gives us the distinct advantage for manipulation.

    Now the conclusion: it's true that the importance on morale, ethic and such things aint natural to entps. To me they aint a center of my attention. That means to others I appear flighty, even haphazard and I dont even recognize that. This is a weakness and doubly so its an invisible weakness. Due to that people have turned their backs on me and I didnt even understand why.

    Now the thing is what you do from here. I personally since the day I was born have rules over which I define myself and which make me feel good. They mostly came naturally to me. The first one is that when I fall in love, it's always with the heart. I did that only 2 times so far in my life and that makes my "girls I had sex with" counter pretty low. But since I am placing importance on the heart thing, having sex isnt the main subject for me. So from that ultimatively a sense of loyality developed. This sense has gotten so far that I am at the point right now at which I fighgt for it and defend it. If all goes well I'll be living with my wife until the end of our lifes and I am hoping for that to happen, cause I think of it as being very romantic and great. It feels great and I feel like I am doing a great thing.

    The same it is with work and friends. I have the demand to accomplish a lot of things and that automatically has made me a hard worker. Atm I am working on 3 projects, the magnet generator, my steel mill and a led cube plus I am going to work and university. I am pretty close to a workaholic but I dont want anything less no more. What made this possible basically was living together with my girlfriend, who is an activator for me. When I lived alone, I rot in laziness and did nothing but playing games all day or posting on typology forums.

    So what to gain from that, I am loyal, I am integer, I like to be seen as a hard worker and I have a high demand towards myself of being a good friend. I think to be like that you somehow have to like the victim role a bit. That of course makes me a joke to most of the predators out there, but if I dont loose my teeth being like that, I can still defend myself. The thing is, I dont care what others think, but I treat them like I want to be treaten and that makes it possible for me to wake up in the mornings, look into the mirror and actually like what I see. I am convinced, having a history of depression running thru my family that if I wouldnt put so great importance on being a narcisstic self-loving light house in the dark, I'ld end up depressed as well .
    Sounds like you are a more balanced entp than i, and i assume at least a tad older (perhaps just healthier). I have certain ethic that i derived from logically considering what behavior is best for my survival and reproduction. That being said, i do not have a conscience, i dont believe in protecting those that are weak (unless i for some reason this weakling won my heart but that in itself is power but i digress). To me morals are things to live by so you dont fuck yourself over not so one can entertain a clear conscience. I also have weak "f" and instead of getting better at it i adapt with my Ti by learning social systems and hierarchies from reading. I know that if i act a certain way i can "manipulate" into liking me and even into submitting to my will. I just dont think there is anything wrong with excercising my strengths and if someone doesnt like it well... everybody has an oppinion.

    I am very much dominated by the entp hidden agenda.

  4. #44
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    Quote Originally Posted by FireShield98 View Post
    Hmm, I'm actually VERY good at lying, but I really only lie about my personal life (mainly just my thoughts and feelings). I don't lie to manipulate people though.
    Actually, this is more accurate (since it's not that I lie, I just don't tell everything):
    Quote Originally Posted by Coriolis View Post
    INTJs don't lie. We just dispense the truth in a controlled manner.

  5. #45
    On a mission Usehername's Avatar
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    I can only lie to protect my own or a loved one's personal business.

    Otherwise I just don't care enough to lie. I don't need everyone on my team, and therefore I don't mind saying slightly uncomfortable truths about myself or others. I have great faith in my ability to respectfully conquer my corner of the world, and I similarly see a lot of strengths in the people around me.

    If I'm lying for you or myself in public it probably means I think you or I are vulnerable in a way that isn't relevant to the situation and therefore no one's business.

    I don't manipulate. I just sometimes do not-so-diplomatic things.

    Example: ENTJ friend is the official leader of a group, but isn't doing anything. The department head keeps emailing me and someone else because she knows we'll take care of the actionable items. She just asked who the official leader was because the ENTJ is so absent she couldn't remember, and I outed my friend while affirming that next year, one of us will do a better job.

    I told the ENTJ months ago it was kind of a douche move to have the official title on her resume while doing nothing, and I was not interested in doing the work with my head down. I'll do the work with my head up.

    She didn't change anything, so I just outed her (when asked--I didn't intend to set out and inflict damage). That doesn't mean I don't like her, or even that I'm mad, but rather that I'll be sure to look out for myself and my team before I look out for slackers. Probably, an NF would've handled it more diplomatically. I basically said the truth without feeling motivated to cover for her in any way.
    *You don't have a soul. You are a Soul. You have a body.
    *Faith is the art of holding on to things your reason once accepted, despite your changing moods.
    C.S. Lewis

  6. #46
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    Quote Originally Posted by entropie View Post
    It depends. There is a form of manipulation in which everyone involved knows about the manipulator and there is a form of manipulation in which noone involved knows the manipulator
    Yeah, it's true. It depends, sometimes when I know about something, I just ignore it or pretend to not knowing about it. Anyway, most of the time I stay away from conflict situations. I dislike it...But, I admires ENTPs, I think they are attractive people in terms of socializing.

  7. #47
    Analytical Dreamer Coriolis's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Usehername View Post
    She didn't change anything, so I just outed her (when asked--I didn't intend to set out and inflict damage). That doesn't mean I don't like her, or even that I'm mad, but rather that I'll be sure to look out for myself and my team before I look out for slackers. Probably, an NF would've handled it more diplomatically. I basically said the truth without feeling motivated to cover for her in any way.
    The trick lies in getting the appropriate person to ask. This is something I am very good at.
    I've been called a criminal, a terrorist, and a threat to the known universe. But everything you were told is a lie. The truth is, they've taken our freedom, our home, and our future. The time has come for all humanity to take a stand...

  8. #48
    Alexander the Terrible yenom's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Salomé View Post
    No competition. INTJs can't manipulate their way out of a cardboard box.
    I don't know, Light Yagami was pretty manipulative in death note.

    I'll be honest, I think INTJs are underrated in this thread, and ENTPs aren't as good as they think they are.

    INTJs always give me the impression of a Black Box.
    The fear of poverty turns people into slaves of money.

    "In this Caesar there are many Mariuses"~Sulla

    Conquer your inner demons first before you conquer the world.

  9. #49
    I'm not Trunks
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    I solves 3 problems in less than 5 hours, in my previous working place, everyday I get tested by few of them and there was many and lots of other types. (collectivism). I get tested almost everyday, I still can see the problem from above and solves their tests very well. I didn't like it, I can take a vengeance, but I didn't. I just know my limits...I can see an ENTPs has a lots of votes at this thread. Anyway, can ENTPs solves problem as quick as an INTJs?

  10. #50
    Senior Member Uytuun's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Trunks View Post
    can ENTPs solves problem as quick as an INTJs?
    Maybe the real question here is "Can they create them faster?"

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