User Tag List

View Poll Results: Who is better at manipulating

Voters
33. You may not vote on this poll
  • INTJ

    11 33.33%
  • ENTP

    22 66.67%
First 23456 Last

Results 31 to 40 of 67

  1. #31
    resonance entropie's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2008
    MBTI
    entp
    Enneagram
    783
    Posts
    16,761

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Trunks View Post
    I despised manipulation, I only do that if I have no choice and as a self defense. Anyway, INTJ are far more better than ENTPs. I know this because I had dealing with several ENTPs before at different situations.
    It didn't take long to bring them down since I can see the problem from above.
    It depends. There is a form of manipulation in which everyone involved knows about the manipulator and there is a form of manipulation in which noone involved knows the manipulator
    [URL]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tEBvftJUwDw&t=0s[/URL]

  2. #32
    Ginkgo
    Guest

    Default

    It scares me that someone even wants to know.

  3. #33
    Junior Member
    Join Date
    Mar 2010
    MBTI
    ENTP
    Enneagram
    7w8
    Socionics
    ENTP
    Posts
    16

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by entropie View Post
    I think the whole manipulation discussion is bullshit. I never conciously manipulated anyone in all my life. I have a personality and this influences people all around me in my daily life that's why its called social life. I am a motivator and people get inspired by my ideas and thats not because I sell em charming, its because I thought them thru beforehand and made sure they make sense.

    Man forges his own destiny and people who think other people manipulate people have in my opinion issues with their own personal integrity and personality. I am carried away easily by good ideas of other people but if they are able to manipulate me or trick me into something is my own personal choice in the end. And if I am not aware of the moment in which that happens, I have a problem and its not only the other people who are evil.
    Integrity...oppinion.. good and evil.. these things dont make sense to me. Every entp i have met manipulates people extremely successfuly... and they dont do it because they are evil, but because entps dont intuitively understand feelings. Because this hasnt come natural, we have to learn it cognitively. and when you understand a system fully its hard not to achieve your goals through it, that would defeat the purpose of learning how it works in the first place. If the definition of manipulate is to change or effect a subject in someway then i cant see how social manipulation is evil or without integrity. Life is a game, earth is a playground, the people are tools.

  4. #34
    resonance entropie's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2008
    MBTI
    entp
    Enneagram
    783
    Posts
    16,761

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by CashmanGreen View Post
    Integrity...oppinion.. good and evil.. these things dont make sense to me. Every entp i have met manipulates people extremely successfuly... and they dont do it because they are evil, but because entps dont intuitively understand feelings. Because this hasnt come natural, we have to learn it cognitively. and when you understand a system fully its hard not to achieve your goals through it, that would defeat the purpose of learning how it works in the first place. If the definition of manipulate is to change or effect a subject in someway then i cant see how social manipulation is evil or without integrity. Life is a game, earth is a playground, the people are tools.
    I think you have a very good point here but I disagree with your conclusion.

    It's indeed the case that as a Ne dominant, life is anything but orderly. While a Te dom would maybe show integrity by rigorously sticking to his opinion, to an Ne the World is always open to reevaluation and decisions are based on data that flows in. I often dont recognize at work how I change my opinion and that I have with only 2 days in between suddenly the opposite opinion towards an issue. I dont do this on purpose and I need other people to remind me, I am often angry at myself when I notice this happening but it does happen and I have to live with it. On the feelings part I disagree. I as an entp have an exceptionally well rich inner feeling World, I am just often oblivious to it. Living together with a dominant Feeler helps you getting deeper in touch with your emotions and learning things about morale and ethics, which you value and she of course places a great importance on. In that regards entps to me are strong empaths, who not only can feel with others but see the dynamic of a situation as well. That gives us the distinct advantage for manipulation.

    Now the conclusion: it's true that the importance on morale, ethic and such things aint natural to entps. To me they aint a center of my attention. That means to others I appear flighty, even haphazard and I dont even recognize that. This is a weakness and doubly so its an invisible weakness. Due to that people have turned their backs on me and I didnt even understand why.

    Now the thing is what you do from here. I personally since the day I was born have rules over which I define myself and which make me feel good. They mostly came naturally to me. The first one is that when I fall in love, it's always with the heart. I did that only 2 times so far in my life and that makes my "girls I had sex with" counter pretty low. But since I am placing importance on the heart thing, having sex isnt the main subject for me. So from that ultimatively a sense of loyality developed. This sense has gotten so far that I am at the point right now at which I fighgt for it and defend it. If all goes well I'll be living with my wife until the end of our lifes and I am hoping for that to happen, cause I think of it as being very romantic and great. It feels great and I feel like I am doing a great thing.

    The same it is with work and friends. I have the demand to accomplish a lot of things and that automatically has made me a hard worker. Atm I am working on 3 projects, the magnet generator, my steel mill and a led cube plus I am going to work and university. I am pretty close to a workaholic but I dont want anything less no more. What made this possible basically was living together with my girlfriend, who is an activator for me. When I lived alone, I rot in laziness and did nothing but playing games all day or posting on typology forums.

    So what to gain from that, I am loyal, I am integer, I like to be seen as a hard worker and I have a high demand towards myself of being a good friend. I think to be like that you somehow have to like the victim role a bit. That of course makes me a joke to most of the predators out there, but if I dont loose my teeth being like that, I can still defend myself. The thing is, I dont care what others think, but I treat them like I want to be treaten and that makes it possible for me to wake up in the mornings, look into the mirror and actually like what I see. I am convinced, having a history of depression running thru my family that if I wouldnt put so great importance on being a narcisstic self-loving light house in the dark, I'ld end up depressed as well .
    [URL]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tEBvftJUwDw&t=0s[/URL]

  5. #35
    Riva
    Guest

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by mia_infp View Post
    Hehe, yeah. And the INTJs I know are terrible at lying - or maybe I just know them too well.
    INTJs dislike lying. But they are quite good at at. Especially at -

    Quote Originally Posted by Coriolis View Post
    INTJs don't lie. We just dispense the truth in a controlled manner.
    This.

    Even when they lie they tend to use actual situations but hiding segments of it. This way they are satisfied that they told the truth but lied anyway.

    But also,

    They are excellent at lying to your face. Without any remorse they do this better than any other type for the best of my knowledge because -

    There is an end result that is worth lying for
    You'll never find out the truth (Cock sure of their decisions)
    Before you find out the truth he/she will explain the reason as to why the real story wasn't conveyed
    etc

    Quote Originally Posted by highlander View Post
    I'm very uncomfortable doing that. You might be right.
    Oh,

    INTJs are not so good at lying to their loved ones most probably because there is not end result in the lie. If someone inquires something personal from an INTJ there might not be an end result of lying. At these moments INTJ will get stuck. (To put it in simple words.)

  6. #36
    Listening Oaky's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2009
    MBTI
    INTJ
    Enneagram
    5w6 sp/so
    Socionics
    SLI None
    Posts
    6,168

    Default

    Beautiful secrets. We all keep them in one way or the other, like ENTPs. Ability to manipulate... perhaps... well... ability to know who they are able to manipulate and ability to avoid trying to manipulate all those they aren't able to manipulate successfully? Hmmm... A bit troublesome, I see we're near a cliff. INTJs? They like beautifully played orchestra. Bring in your elaborate conspiracy theorist. They love these things.

  7. #37
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Jan 2012
    Posts
    868

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Riva View Post
    INTJs dislike lying. But they are quite good at at. Especially at -



    This.

    Even when they lie they tend to use actual situations but hiding segments of it. This way they are satisfied that they told the truth but lied anyway.

    But also,

    They are excellent at lying to your face. Without any remorse they do this better than any other type for the best of my knowledge because -

    There is an end result that is worth lying for
    You'll never find out the truth (Cock sure of their decisions)
    Before you find out the truth he/she will explain the reason as to why the real story wasn't conveyed
    etc



    Oh,

    INTJs are not so good at lying to their loved ones most probably because there is not end result in the lie. If someone inquires something personal from an INTJ there might not be an end result of lying. At these moments INTJ will get stuck. (To put it in simple words.)
    Yeah. I know. The problem is they can't remember everything they've said, and are so confident about their lying that they get sloppy. I find it pretty easy to know when an INTJ I've known for even a short amount of time is lying. That's the beauty of having Si...biotches.

  8. #38
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Jan 2012
    Posts
    868

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by entropie View Post
    häh ? I am male !
    I was referring to myself when I said "she" dude. I'm female.

  9. #39
    resonance entropie's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2008
    MBTI
    entp
    Enneagram
    783
    Posts
    16,761

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by mia_infp View Post
    I was referring to myself when I said "she" dude. I'm female.
    ah, see how I tricked you into giving away your gender . jokes aside sometimes I just dont understand things, english is good but not flawless :/
    [URL]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tEBvftJUwDw&t=0s[/URL]

  10. #40
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Jan 2012
    Posts
    868

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by entropie View Post
    ah, see how I tricked you into giving away your gender . jokes aside sometimes I just dont understand things, english is good but not flawless :/
    Well it's much better than my insert any language here other than native English. So bravo dude. *curtsies*

Similar Threads

  1. [INTJ] INTJ 1 vs 5?
    By Bluen in forum The NT Rationale (ENTP, INTP, ENTJ, INTJ)
    Replies: 0
    Last Post: 03-28-2016, 02:43 PM
  2. [ENTP] INTJ vs ENTP
    By cj1122 in forum The NT Rationale (ENTP, INTP, ENTJ, INTJ)
    Replies: 9
    Last Post: 03-11-2016, 02:55 PM
  3. [MBTItm] STEM INTP VS INTJ VS ENTJ VS ENTP
    By Cryonium in forum The NT Rationale (ENTP, INTP, ENTJ, INTJ)
    Replies: 3
    Last Post: 02-14-2013, 09:44 AM
  4. [ENTP] ENTP Men vs. ENTP Women
    By BlahBlahNounBlah in forum The NT Rationale (ENTP, INTP, ENTJ, INTJ)
    Replies: 68
    Last Post: 07-10-2009, 12:29 AM

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
Single Sign On provided by vBSSO