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Thread: Christian NTs

  1. #41
    @.~*virinaĉo*~.@ Totenkindly's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Metamorphosis View Post
    How does this differ from the Christian God (not the existence of Jesus)? Aren't many of the old testament stories very similar to those found in older pagan religions?
    There's overlap between the stories to some degree (many culture have flood stories, all cultures have creation stories, for example). But monotheism wasn't really the standard at the time; usually there were a variety of gods in a pantheon, to explain how the world worked.
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  2. #42
    Per Ardua Metamorphosis's Avatar
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    I guess I'm confused on the idea that paganism requiring faith is a bad thing and that somehow Christianity requires less faith and that the existence of a Christian God has more evidence.

    Although, I'll admit that the term pagan is so broad as to be almost meaningless in any comparative discussion.
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    than to serve and obey them. - David Hume

  3. #43
    As Long As It Takes.... Redbone's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lark View Post
    Asatru or Wiccan or Odenian?
    None of those. American Indian (ancestral) in origin.

    I guess I'm confused on the idea that paganism requiring faith is a bad thing and that somehow Christianity requires less faith and that the existence of a Christian God has more evidence.
    Yeah, I didn't get that either.

  4. #44
    Senior Member Survive & Stay Free's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Redbone View Post
    None of those. American Indian (ancestral) in origin.

    Yeah, I didn't get that either.
    Ah of course, sorry, I associate the word pagan with the pre-Christian "old religion" of Europe and Celtic nations.

  5. #45
    Analytical Dreamer Coriolis's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Usehername View Post
    I don't think NTs are any less religious than any other MBT group.
    Quote Originally Posted by Seymour View Post
    I think according to most MBTI studies of religious affiliation, NTs (especially ENTPs) are significantly underrepresented in those that identify with a religion.
    This may come down to what one means by religious. I would suspect fewer NTs identify with an organized religion, due to our tendency toward independence, skepticism, and questioning authority. I would also suspect, however, that we are just as likely to be spiritual, to have interest in the questions that religions try to answer.

    Quote Originally Posted by Nerd Girl View Post
    [Agreed.] Typically, sensational! Instant gratification from spirits (not from God) with minimal to no faith required.

    ...or so I've heard.

    Forgive me if I'm wrong. The term has many meanings.
    You are right about Paganism; the term does indeed mean different things to different people. Many people misunderstand the nature of Pagan faiths. Misunderstanding can lead to distrust and even fear, so "Pagan" will mean something quite different to these people than to Pagans themselves.

    You are wrong, though, about the rest. The "pop-wiccans" Lark referenced often think Paganism is about sensationalism and instant gratification, involving neither God nor faith, but those who bother to explore it find nothing could be further from the truth. These are some of the misconceptions that persist, partly due to centuries of attempts to vilify pre- or non-Christian spirituality; partly due to the misunderstanding mentioned above.

    Quote Originally Posted by gmanyo View Post
    Erm, my problem is that it's pretty much 100% faith. I don't think that there's any evidence at all for Paganism. Maybe I'm wrong, though.
    All religions at their best are a combination of faith, reason, feeling, values - the things that make us human. No religions can prove their claims through evidence. Pagans actually have more "evidence" than most since Pagan faiths tend to be rooted in the natural world: the turn of the seasons, the cycles of nature, the interrelatedness of all life on earth, etc. But it still requires belief.

    Quote Originally Posted by Metamorphosis View Post
    How does this differ from the Christian God (not the existence of Jesus)? Aren't many of the old testament stories very similar to those found in older pagan religions?
    You are correct. Another example of how the same fundamental truths transcend culture, time, and human limitations.

    Quote Originally Posted by Lark View Post
    Although I do think there's a lot of nonsense and superstition churned out to satisfy consumer demand for neo-paganism, for instance pop-wiccans, there's some amusing episodes of Buffy The Vampire Slayer which I recall in which Willow, genuine witchcraft adept, joins a circle of pop-wiccans who're a bitchy cliche of feminazis.
    You are correct about this. Pagan groups historically have kept to themselves, partly because of misunderstanding and prejudice, but also partly to deter the type of "pop-pagans" you reference. The groups with which I am familiar had lengthy "trial periods" for new members, which served quite well to separate true spiritual seekers from rebellious youth, thrill-seekers, or people who just want to look cool or trendy. Being a Pagan takes effort, at least as much as following any other religion and probably more so, because you will be doing much more of the work yourself.

    I don't want to derail a thread about Christian NTs (further) by saying any more about Paganism. There is a thread in the Philosophy and Spirituality section called "Ask a Pagan" which goes into more detail, should anyone be interested.
    I've been called a criminal, a terrorist, and a threat to the known universe. But everything you were told is a lie. The truth is, they've taken our freedom, our home, and our future. The time has come for all humanity to take a stand...

  6. #46
    Senior Member Survive & Stay Free's Avatar
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    Its not always unfair vilification, Christianity DID supersede and repress a lot of bloody sacrificial and superstitious creeds, honest modern pagans would not deny that anymore than a christian could deny the inquisition, peasant war or wars of religion and sectarianism associated with their history

  7. #47
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    Smile The Last Pagan - Dear Hypatia

    Quote Originally Posted by Metamorphosis View Post
    ...the term pagan is so broad as to be almost meaningless in any comparative discussion.
    The last pagan was Hypatia, librarian of the Great Pagan Library of Alexandria. She was also a scientist, mathematician, astronomer and teacher.

    But the Christians of Alexandria burnt the Great Pagan Library of Alexandria to the ground, skinned Hypatia alive and dragged her body through the streets of Alexandria.

    And pagans today are merely anaemic imitations.

    And just as the tragedy of history repeats itself as farce, so paganism today is farcical, a New Age farce.

    You can meet Hypatia by clicking on - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nSTkMYECxX4

    And how can you not fall in love with the last pagan, Hypatia?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Coriolis View Post
    This may come down to what one means by religious. I would suspect fewer NTs identify with an organized religion, due to our tendency toward independence, skepticism, and questioning authority. I would also suspect, however, that we are just as likely to be spiritual, to have interest in the questions that religions try to answer.
    I agree with this. I don't like going to church at all (I go less than the others in my family, except for my mom because she teaches at an online college, so she has to do work all week and doesn't have time to go), but I probably spend more time thinking about it and researching it than the others in my family.

  9. #49
    Analytical Dreamer Coriolis's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lark View Post
    Its not always unfair vilification, Christianity DID supersede and repress a lot of bloody sacrificial and superstitious creeds, honest modern pagans would not deny that anymore than a christian could deny the inquisition, peasant war or wars of religion and sectarianism associated with their history
    Christianity replaced some bloody and superstitious Pagan practices with their own bloody and superstitious practices: the Inquisition, indulgences, self-mortification rituals, even veneration of saints' relics. Both faith groups seems to have grown beyond that now. The vilification campaign I mention, however, was focused on ideas, not practices, and is already evident in the Bible. The Adam and Eve story is a classic example.
    I've been called a criminal, a terrorist, and a threat to the known universe. But everything you were told is a lie. The truth is, they've taken our freedom, our home, and our future. The time has come for all humanity to take a stand...

  10. #50
    Senior Member Helios's Avatar
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    I used to be. Then I grew up. I see religious belief of any kind as a failure to κατήργηκέναι τὰ τοῦ νηπίου...

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