[NT] Why INTJs -can- be more intellectual than INTPs

[Zarathustra]

Actually we arent the first people arguing about this. It seems to be quite hot topic of discussion..

Its funny that you earlier denied what i said about INTJs making Fi judgment about wether a source of information is reliable or not, then blindly trusting or mistrusting the source. Still here you found some random bit of info frrom a source you saw as being trusted and blindly believed it

Actually, I already knew all of this.

You're the dolt who thought it was all deductive reasoning.

 

[INTP]

Actually, I already knew all of this.

You're the dolt who thought it was all deductive reasoning.

If you already knew that is debatable wether they are the same or not. Why did you start arguing about it as being the same? Sounds pretty retarted to me, especially since you didnt give any proper reasons why you think they are the same, both being differwnt from deductive reasoning doesent mean they are the same.

At least i got the balls to admit that i wasnt educated earlier and curiosity to explore the ideas, even tho they might be against my earlier beliefs.

 

[Zarathustra]

If you already knew that is debatable wether they are the same or not. Why did you start arguing about it as being the same? Sounds pretty retarted to me, especially since you didnt give any proper reasons why you think they are the same, both being differwnt from deductive reasoning doesent mean they are the same.

Because I'm on a particular side of this debate.

And because I did give my reasoning. Apparently you're too blind to see it.

At least i got the balls to admit that i wasnt educated earlier and curiosity to explore the ideas, even tho they might be against my earlier beliefs.

Congratulations on being corrected.

 

[ZPowers]

Was there an existing supposition that INTJs couldn't be as (or more) intellectual as INTPs? If so, I'd never heard of it. It seems like someone trying to debunk the rumor that the Japanese only eat cardboard cut-outs of NFL players.

 

[Zarathustra]

Was there an existing supposition that INTJs couldn't be as (or more) intellectual as INTPs?

Read Solitary Walker's profile of INTJs. Read other profiles of INTJs and INTPs. Listen to some of the INTP blowhards on here.

 

[INTP]

Because I'm on a particular side of this debate.

And because I did give my reasoning. Apparently you're too blind to see it.



Congratulations on being corrected.

Actually i wasnt corrected, since i dont think abductive is form of inductive. I only had to read 3 articles and one video about the 3 types of reasoning and it was pretty clear.

If you want to start arguing wether i was corrected or not, go ahead but ill go to sleep now, so we have to continue that tomorrow

 

[Zarathustra]

Actually i wasnt corrected, since i dont think abductive is form of inductive.

I use this definition:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Deductive_reasoning

I misuse this definition:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Deductive_reasoning

Fixed.

You stand corrected.

Again.

 

[skylights]

 

[Mycroft]

How come NFs always interpret a good debate as so much hand-waving and slap-fighting? Iron sharpens iron. We refine our thinking and ideas through discussion. It's a constructive activity.

Zarathustra: in your mind, what differentiates abductive reasoning from inductive reasoning? To be honest I don't really understand the difference all that well.

 

[Red Herring]

More like

 

[Mycroft]

Oh goodness, Red Herring, thank you so much for that charming addition to the thread.

 

[skylights]

How come NFs always interpret a good debate as so much hand-waving and slap-fighting? Iron sharpens iron. We refine our thinking and ideas through discussion. It's a constructive activity.

Ahh, because it sounds like an interesting topic to the NF until she discovers it's an INTJ and an INTP refining minor logical detail. N's captivation is lessened by F's gigantic yawn. She shall leave the INTs to their debate and return later to benefit from the resulting conclusions.

 

[Red Herring]

Ahh, because it sounds like an interesting topic to the NF until she discovers it's an INTJ and an INTP refining minor logical detail. N's captivation is lessened by F's gigantic yawn. She shall leave the INTs to their debate and return later to benefit from the resulting conclusions.

Oh, I actually do find the topic at hand interesting. I am just doubtful of the participant's noble motivation at engaging in it

So I prefer to do some further research and thinking on my own instead.

 

[Rasofy]

How come NFs always interpret a good debate as so much hand-waving and slap-fighting? Iron sharpens iron. We refine our thinking and ideas through discussion. It's a constructive activity.

True.

I guess NFPs want us to write 20 lines describing how we feel about it.

 

[Poki]

Oh, I actually do find the topic at hand interesting. I am just doubtful of the participant's boble motivation at engaging in it

So I prefer to do some further research and thinking on my own instead.

Inductive reasoning - For example, a salesperson, by observing a potential customer’s reaction to the sales presentation, may induce what the customer’s needs and personality are and what should be said to obtain the sale. - Edumacated guess
Abductive reasoning - process of using evidence to reach a wider conclusion, as in inference to the best explanation - Edumacated Guess
Deductive reasoning - Observance of an event occurring on a repeated basis that leads one to believe that a certain probability is attached to the occurrence of that event - Probability (no real guess)

 

[skylights]

Oh, I actually do find the topic at hand interesting. I am just doubtful of the participant's boble motivation at engaging in it

So I prefer to do some further research and thinking on my own instead.

Well, I would be lying if I denied that my decision to contribute such an emoticon was not influenced by the identities of the participants.

I guess NFPs want us to write 20 lines describing how we feel about it.

No thank you, you are more than welcome to handle the logic. I can provide more than 20 lines if they are requested.

Incidentally it would seem that an INTP would have a better hold on both deductive reasoning given Ti and inductive reasoning given Ne, versus INTJ's proficiency in inductive reasoning. But there is the minor issue of production on INTP's part, as the OP addressed. Without tangible results, even the most brilliant ideas slip away into the aether.

 

[Red Herring]

Inductive reasoning - For example, a salesperson, by observing a potential customer’s reaction to the sales presentation, may induce what the customer’s needs and personality are and what should be said to obtain the sale. - Edumacated guess
Abductive reasoning - process of using evidence to reach a wider conclusion, as in inference to the best explanation - Edumacated Guess
Deductive reasoning - Observance of an event occurring on a repeated basis that leads one to believe that a certain probability is attached to the occurrence of that event - Probability (no real guess)

I knew that much. But thanks for the gesture.

 

[Poki]

I knew that much. But thanks for the gesture.

Np, figured I would spell it out for everyone, I honestly could care less what the type of reasoning...if its wrong its wrong no matter whether you used induction, conduction, UFO abduction

 

[Zarathustra]

I knew that much. But thanks for the gesture.

He's actually wrong.

What he says is deduction is not deduction.

It's induction, abduction, or both, depending on your take.

Incidentally it would seem that an INTP would have a better hold on both deductive reasoning given Ti and inductive reasoning given Ne, versus INTJ's proficiency in inductive reasoning. But there is the minor issue of production on INTP's part, as the OP addressed. Without tangible results, even the most brilliant ideas slip away into the aether.

The above makes no sense.

My explanation above gives a proper account of it:

My inductive/adbuctive leap, which I have stated many times on here over the last several years, is that NTJ thinking is more suited to inductive/abductive reasoning, while NTP thinking is more suited to deductive reasoning. I also believe iNtuition seems to be more related to inductive/abductive reasoning, while Thinking seems to be more related to deductive reasoning -- hence, the more robust iNtuition of NTJs (perhaps ENTPs, with extroverted intuition in the dominant, could be considered second to INTJs, but greater than ENTJs, in this regard) leads them to be better at induction/abduction, while the more robust Thinking of NTPs (perhaps ENTJs, with extroverted thinking in the dominant, could be considered second to INTP, but greater than ENTPs, in this regard) leads them to be better at deduction.

 

[Poki]

He's actually wrong.

What he says is deduction is not deduction.

OK...deductive reasoning
1.All men are mortal
2.Socrates is a man
3.Therefore, Socrates is mortal

Prove ALL Men are mortal...its probability