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  1. #41
    Senior Member Nicodemus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Zarathustra View Post
    And yet is an important perspective to keep in mind so that NTJs don't fail to recognize the utility of the more deductive NTP-styled thinking, as they are wont to do when they are in the process of differentiating their more inductive, NiTe approach to thinking.
    But in recognizing the utility of NTP-styled thinking, should we not recognize the utility of NTPs? They, too, need to have a purpose in life.

    Quote Originally Posted by Zarathustra View Post
    I also don't know that it's accurate to say that it's not at all what INTP had in mind...
    Granted.

  2. #42
    Senior Member INTP's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nicodemus View Post
    No, neither of these issues leave open the opportunity for new information from a deductive argument.

    The first issue has no bearing on the question at all, for if new premises bring new conclusions, then it is because these premises contain new information. It is not the deductive reasoning that injects new information into the argument: the argument itself is new. The second issue does not prove INTP's friend's statement wrong if it is understood as I described above, for it only holds that all conclusions must necessarily follow from the information contained in the premises so that one may draw new conclusions from old premises, but not information that is not already contained in them. You can arrange the pieces in a new way, but the pieces remain the same.
    25175173 + 34223614 = 59398787

    Voila, i made a new truth via deduction(okay maybe someone did come up with that before, but i cba to add more numbers to that, since this should prove my point already).

    Another bit less simplified example would be jungian typology(yea yea someone might disagree with its validity, but just an example).

    How do you think many of the scientific discoveries are made? First there is a hypothesis that is made using deduction, then the hypothesis is tested and validated. The new truth was made via deduction before the validation, even tho it might had not been proven true before, but nevertheless it was true and was made up by deduction.
    "Where wisdom reigns, there is no conflict between thinking and feeling."
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  3. #43
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nicodemus View Post
    But in recognizing the utility of NTP-styled thinking, should we not recognize the utility of NTPs? They, too, need to have a purpose in life.
    I dunno...

    That's going a little far, isn't it?

  4. #44
    Senior Member Nicodemus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by INTP View Post
    25175173 + 34223614 = 59398787

    Voila, i made a new truth via deduction(okay maybe someone did come up with that before, but i cba to add more numbers to that, since this should prove my point already).

    Another bit less simplified example would be jungian typology(yea yea someone might disagree with its validity, but just an example).

    How do you think many of the scientific discoveries are made? First there is a hypothesis that is made using deduction, then the hypothesis is tested and validated. The new truth was made via deduction before the validation, even tho it might had not been proven true before, but nevertheless it was true and was made up by deduction.
    The history of philosophy of science and I disagree.

    But perhaps you are merely using a different definition of 'deduction' than most others.

  5. #45
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    Quote Originally Posted by INTP View Post
    How do you think many of the scientific discoveries are made? First there is a hypothesis that is made using deduction, then the hypothesis is tested and validated. The new truth was made via deduction before the validation, even tho it might had not been proven true before, but nevertheless it was true and was made up by deduction.
    I believe you're mistaking induction for deduction.

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Inductive_reasoning

  6. #46
    Senior Member INTP's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nicodemus View Post
    The history of philosophy of science and I disagree.

    But perhaps you are merely using a different definition of 'deduction' than most others.
    I use this definition:

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Deductive_reasoning
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  7. #47
    Senior Member Nicodemus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by INTP View Post
    Then you are either wrong or terribly bad at expressing your ideas.

  8. #48
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    Quote Originally Posted by INTP View Post
    Fixed.

  9. #49
    royal member Rasofy's Avatar
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    I think we make our initial assumptions the same way INTJs do (on a lesser extent though), but we gotta take things one step further and generate models to explain the assumptions.
    This need to have a model that accommodates every piece of information available, despite being slower, makes it easier to deal with new data.

    tl;dr: INTPs win
    -----------------

    A man builds. A parasite asks 'Where is my share?'
    A man creates. A parasite says, 'What will the neighbors think?'
    A man invents. A parasite says, 'Watch out, or you might tread on the toes of God... '


    -----------------

  10. #50
    Senior Member INTP's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Zarathustra View Post
    I believe you're mistaking induction for deduction.

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Inductive_reasoning
    Actually now that you mentioned, its abductive reasoning, i thought abductive was some subclass of deductive and didnt think it as something separate
    "Where wisdom reigns, there is no conflict between thinking and feeling."
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