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Thread: truth = logic

  1. #41
    ^He pronks, too! Magic Poriferan's Avatar
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    I don't think it's quite right to say logic equates to the truth, but it is the means by which we verify truth. It is also how we formulate ideas to begin with, even the construction of a linguistic sentence is more a less a logical process.

    But do look at this way that may favor the OP. Does truth exist in any inherent sense? Is truth a part of reality, or strictly a subjective human concept? If it's strictly subjective, than perhaps logic, by being the means of determining truth, is in fact truth.

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  2. #42
    The elder Holmes Mycroft's Avatar
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    INTP, if you frame it as "karen = human" you are, indeed saying that the two are interchangeable. If you were to say:

    logic = truth
    feelings = truth

    ...feelings = logic would follow.

    When someone has asserted that "logic = truth" and you respond with "feelings are just as true as logic", I don't see how this could be interpreted as anything other than the assertion that "feelings = truth".
    Dost thou love Life? Then do not squander Time; for that's the Stuff Life is made of.

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  3. #43
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    Quote Originally Posted by Magic Poriferan View Post
    I don't think it's quite right to say logic equates to the truth, but it is the means by which we verify truth. It is also how we formulate ideas to begin with, even the construction of a linguistic sentence is more a less a logical process.

    But do look at this way that may favor the OP. Does truth exist in any inherent sense? Is truth a part of reality, or strictly a subjective human concept? If it's strictly subjective, than perhaps logic, by being the means of determining truth, is in fact truth.

    Will the search for truth ever end or is it like trying to zoom in on a fractal? This ignores the false or the lies which is more like a mobius strip leading you in circles.
    Im out, its been fun

  4. #44
    The elder Holmes Mycroft's Avatar
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    Red Herring, unfortunately I can only respond briefly:

    - I never claimed that emotions have no validity at all. The proper place of emotions would make an interesting thread for another day. I do claim that emotions are neither a form of truth nor a means of arriving at truth, which are the only two ways I can see interpreting INTP's initial statement.

    - Although in truly rigorous debate, etc., it would be necessary to be absolutely clear about what was meant by "house", "city", "time zone", etc., these are all existents, and are therefore things about which statements, truthful or untruthful, could be made.

    - If we were to quantify what physical state is denoted by the term "anger", it would indeed be something that could be proven or disproven. (This hypothetical subject would either be displaying increased heart rate, etc., or he would not be.) However, to borrow your own example from earlier, saying that an emotion is "true" is like saying that a chair is "true". Equally, saying that an emotion "exists" requires a definition of existence which is so ambiguous that although it may be well-suited to literary work, it would not be useful to debate and discussion.

    At any rate, it seems we're now simultaneously addressing two things:

    1. Whether or not emotions can be said to "exist"
    2. Whether or not emotions are a means of arriving at truthful postulates about the universe we inhabit

    I'll make a new thread at some point.
    Dost thou love Life? Then do not squander Time; for that's the Stuff Life is made of.

    -- Benjamin Franklin, Poor Richard's Almanack, June 1746 --

  5. #45
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mycroft View Post
    - I never claimed that emotions have no validity at all. The proper place of emotions would make an interesting thread for another day. I do claim that emotions are neither a form of truth nor a means of arriving at truth, which are the only two ways I can see interpreting INTP's initial statement.
    feelings are just as much "truth" as logic is truth. That stumps me to no end. Do you know what feelings are?


    oh...I understand....should have read your entire post...."about the universe we inhabit"...you must have taken people out of the universe
    Im out, its been fun

  6. #46
    ^He pronks, too! Magic Poriferan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by _Poki_ View Post
    Will the search for truth ever end or is it like trying to zoom in on a fractal? This ignores the false or the lies which is more like a mobius strip leading you in circles.
    No. I think it's infinitely divisible.
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  7. #47
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    Quote Originally Posted by Magic Poriferan View Post
    No. I think it's infinitely divisible.
    Is this like trying to change 1/3 into a decimal or like one of those division problems where there is no pattern, but it never ends?
    Im out, its been fun

  8. #48
    Senior Member INTP's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mycroft View Post
    INTP, if you frame it as "karen = human" you are, indeed saying that the two are interchangeable. If you were to say:

    logic = truth
    feelings = truth

    ...feelings = logic would follow.

    When someone has asserted that "logic = truth" and you respond with "feelings are just as true as logic", I don't see how this could be interpreted as anything other than the assertion that "feelings = truth".
    Sorry, but you make it impossible to put any sense in you, so ill just that lol noob :----DDDD
    Last edited by INTP; 01-30-2012 at 06:53 PM.
    "Where wisdom reigns, there is no conflict between thinking and feeling."
    — C.G. Jung

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  9. #49
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    Quote Originally Posted by _Poki_ View Post
    Will the search for truth ever end or is it like trying to zoom in on a fractal? This ignores the false or the lies which is more like a mobius strip leading you in circles.
    That reminds me of the Kafka parable, Before the Law.

    A man goes to a castle tower to see the "Law" but is prevented from seeing the Law because of the first doorman. The doorman remains with the seeker as he tries all sorts of ploys and tactics to enter but he still fails in his search. He waits for years and years, and before finally dying, the doorman closes the door on him, and says that he was the only one capable of finding that door. The "door" was only made for him to "find."

    Now, this story can be interpreted in many different ways. Was the seeker there of his own free-will or determined to seek the truth that he couldn't find? Or was the bottom doorman determined to be there to fulfill the actions that reflected the man's search and incapability of finding the truth? Were these levels that the man couldn't find aspects of an objective reality, or maybe, the inner subjective reality that is deeper than the surface experience. Is the search for truth utterly absurd and filled with contradictions or is there a way of finding it in some way, even if only experientially?

    I'm not really asking you to answer these questions.

    I just think this parable, depending on how you see it, could say something important about our desires to find truth, whatever that may be.

  10. #50
    sswwwaagggg gmanyo's Avatar
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    feelings are hormones, logic is synapses
    Quote Originally Posted by Qlip View Post
    I'm starting to see you and your avatar as a cloud of odor that eminates from trashy threads.

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