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  1. #61
    Senior Member sriv's Avatar
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    Is that why INTJs are such good BS detectors?
    Reyson: ...If you were to change your ways, I'm sure we could rebuild the relationship the two of us once shared.

    Naesala: Oh no, that I could never do. You see, humans are essential to the fulfillment of my ambitions.

    Reyson: You've changed, Naesala. If this is the path you've chosen, I've nothing left to say.

  2. #62
    Senior Member Veneti's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by sriv View Post
    Is that why INTJs are such good BS detectors?
    Because we look for consistency and bounce whatever is said off our own internal framework.

    We filter everything, it is not right until we agree with it... hence, we detect BS pretty quickly. Lets face it, we also give people BS ratings which speeds up the process.

    Also, we're pretty good at thowing oblique comments and testing the deflective ability of the person... find the weak chink and beat on that.. if they can defend that then they know something. Rare though.

  3. #63
    Senior Member Gabe's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Veneti View Post
    Because we look for consistency and bounce whatever is said off our own internal framework.

    We filter everything, it is not right until we agree with it... hence, we detect BS pretty quickly. Lets face it, we also give people BS ratings which speeds up the process.

    Also, we're pretty good at thowing oblique comments and testing the deflective ability of the person... find the weak chink and beat on that.. if they can defend that then they know something. Rare though.
    internal 'framework'?? That sounds more like a word-for-word description of Ti. The rest sounds like some super person that some NTs might try to convince themselves that they are. It makes a very colorful zero-dimensional personality portrait though!

  4. #64
    Don't Judge Me! Haphazard's Avatar
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    No, it's more that Ni sniffs out something that doesn't seem right and Te proceeds to destroy.

    Ni and Si are similar in that they both compare and filter experience, as opposed to Ne and Se. They both compare what is perceived to how things 'should be'. However, Ni, instead of comparing to a store of past experiences, Ni tries to compare to whatever it decides is an ideal. Ni is trying to access the universal plane when figuring things out, and when it's too far off, it fails.

    Ni decides that, according to internalized universals, something isn't right, and then Te systematically tears apart whatever it is to get to the root of what exactly isn't right. Once Ni finds what it was looking for, it proceeds to gloat. If 'what wasn't right' turns out to be entirely innocent, both Ni and Te run off, bright red in the face with their tails between their legs.

  5. #65
    Senior Member Gabe's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Haphazard View Post
    No, it's more that Ni sniffs out something that doesn't seem right and Te proceeds to destroy.

    Ni and Si are similar in that they both compare and filter experience, as opposed to Ne and Se. They both compare what is perceived to how things 'should be'. However, Ni, instead of comparing to a store of past experiences, Ni tries to compare to whatever it decides is an ideal. Ni is trying to access the universal plane when figuring things out, and when it's too far off, it fails.

    Ni decides that, according to internalized universals, something isn't right, and then Te systematically tears apart whatever it is to get to the root of what exactly isn't right. Once Ni finds what it was looking for, it proceeds to gloat. If 'what wasn't right' turns out to be entirely innocent, both Ni and Te run off, bright red in the face with their tails between their legs.
    hmm. It occurs to me that dominant processes don't usually gloat unless it's recovering from insecurity.

    However, the process/archetype that often does gloat is the tertiary/child. In fact, the whole theme of the tertiary is that it continually oscillates between loosing and regaining confidence. When the tertiary is right, it is on top of the world, enthusiastic, and gloating, when it ends up being wrong it whimpers and collapses (a great child arcetypal figure would be the lion in The Wizard of Oz, who at first is all "I'll kick your ass with my eyes closed" and then is all "what did you *sob* do that *sniff* for" after Dorothy slaps him)

  6. #66
    Don't Judge Me! Haphazard's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gabe View Post
    hmm. It occurs to me that dominant processes don't usually gloat unless it's recovering from insecurity.

    However, the process/archetype that often does gloat is the tertiary/child. In fact, the whole theme of the tertiary is that it continually oscillates between loosing and regaining confidence. When the tertiary is right, it is on top of the world, enthusiastic, and gloating, when it ends up being wrong it whimpers and collapses (a great child arcetypal figure would be the lion in The Wizard of Oz, who at first is all "I'll kick your ass with my eyes closed" and then is all "what did you *sob* do that *sniff* for" after Dorothy slaps him)
    Lol. Well, it's just an expression. The point is that they were right... I guess for an INTJ it would be more of a smug satisfaction, anyway, rather than outright gloating.

  7. #67
    Senior Member Cypocalypse's Avatar
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    Thoughts from an INTP:

    I don't get the title of the thread. I find INTJ's to be protocol oriented and logic based. They're more coherent than subjective, actually. You get their drift, and remains as such.

    Their strong Te implies empiricism, and their J fuction implies that they're probably more prejudicial than the P's.

    Problem with this, not every process of learning or getting to the "truth" involves empiricism, and I guess this is where the biases of Te and J comes in. There's no universal methodology in learning everything.

  8. #68
    Junior Member umop_3pisdn's Avatar
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    I generally agree with Haphazard and Veneti. Philosophically, I think holding a more (knowingly) subjective view of the world holds some merit, due to the brain's ability to generate reality. But that's another topic, since we're mostly discussing reason/argument, and subjective viewpoints are a lot less valuable in rational discourse, unless discussing ethics or something.

    I agree that it has to do with dominant Ni. They do say it's an irrational function, since it's a perceiving function. It's also introverted, which decreases the need for outside input, and thus makes it more subjective. As Athenian said, I believe the Ni-Fi axis also plays some role. But I think most just has to do with Ni getting ahead of the other functions. Most of my lapses in judgment tend to stem from not allowing my other functions to catch up and do a logic or reality-check on my Ni intuitions. So sometimes I just need to slow down and think things through a bit more calmly.

    Sometimes inspiration tends to come with a bit of a high, with the feeling of realization and this odd sensation of certainty you can't really put easily to words all the time, it often feels like my consciousness is just arranging itself in certain ways in order to receive transmissions from somewhere out there. But that's crazy. I just mean, despite the subjective nature of Ni, inspiration often tends to feel oddly trans personal or even originating from someplace outside myself. I know it isn't, but that feeling can sort of create an unsound sort of "certainty" which can kind lead to failure if blindly followed.

  9. #69
    Senior Member Veneti's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gabe View Post
    internal 'framework'?? That sounds more like a word-for-word description of Ti. The rest sounds like some super person that some NTs might try to convince themselves that they are. It makes a very colorful zero-dimensional personality portrait though!
    Errr.. I am that person.

    So I'd have to disagree with that "one dimensional personality" concept.

  10. #70
    Senior Member Veneti's Avatar
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    I actually believe I am very F. But in order to ensure that the correct decision is made T always rules the day. As I've said before the I coupled with the T/F is a dynamo that generates energy.

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