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  1. #21
    Senior Member Kristiana's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Haphazard View Post
    Well, many descriptions overlap to an extent.

    Also... ISTJs can appear as INTJs, depending on the environment they were raised. Hmmm...
    Interesting, how so? What types of environments do you think produce this?
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  2. #22
    Don't Judge Me! Haphazard's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kristiana View Post
    Interesting, how so? What types of environments do you think produce this?
    ISTJs, along with most SJs, have a strong sense of what is 'normal.' If what an INTJ appears as is 'normal,' then an ISTJ will appear as an INTJ. More or less, an "N" environment will turn an ISTJ to look INTJ.

  3. #23
    Senior Member TheLastMohican's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Haphazard View Post
    INTJs are extremely subjective.

    All I can say is that an INTJ works a little like this. Let's say the Jungian functions of an INTJ are given the task to fly a plane from city A to city B.

    Ni, Te, Fi, and Se all get on the plane. Ni gets the pilot's seat, of course, and Te gets the copilot's seat. Fi is given a book to placate her on the journey, but Se has nothing to do so he's got his face mashed up against the window and staring outside.

    Meanwhile, Ni finds a flaw in the flight plan and draws a new line on the map as a better flight trajectory, a more efficient route from city A to city B. Te is about to look it over when suddenly Ni and Te hear shouting from the cabin. Te goes out to see what's going on and finds Se pointing out the window and shouting about some mountains or something -- Te doesn't really care, and thinks that Se is just acting like his usual ADD self and smacks him around a few times to get him to shut up. When Fi tells Te to please stop it, Te yells at her, and Fi starts crying, both for Se and her own sake.

    Ni is still in the cockpit, figuring that the new flight plan is good and continues following it without Te's input. Ni then sips his coffee, pondering solutions to life, the universe, and everything, and the plane goes careening into the same mountains that Se was screaming about earlier, all of them dying instantly.

    And that's when the INTJ falls into a sudden coma right in the middle of history class.
    I love that description.

    I am aware that I have strong Ni, but I think it is not nearly as bad as you describe it to be. You say that everything is funneled through Ni, but I think Ni is more the final step, which roots out fishiness and sends it back for another check-through. It is exercised at both ends of the process, but at least for me it does not rule out things until I have thought about them objectively first. But then it still makes me reinvestigate if something doesn't feel right.

  4. #24
    Don't Judge Me! Haphazard's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Duke of York View Post
    I love that description.

    I am aware that I have strong Ni, but I think it is not nearly as bad as you describe it to be. You say that everything is funneled through Ni, but I think Ni is more the final step, which roots out fishiness and sends it back for another check-through. It is exercised at both ends of the process, but at least for me it does not rule out things until I have thought about them objectively first. But then it still makes me reinvestigate if something doesn't feel right.
    Well, of course it's not as bad as I describe it to be, that's just what happens when there's massive failure on all fronts. Ni is blind and deaf and can't fly a plane on his own, and Te got preoccupied with paying attention to Se and trying to silence it, and Fi sat in the background and was entirely ineffectual. If the functions don't work together they're not going to do anything right. If they had been working together properly, Te would have listened to Se's screaming about mountains and would have warned Ni about the flaw in the new flight plan, and they'd both come up with an even better one. At the end of the day, Fi would come up with a good moral to the story and try to enforce internal unity for the next tasks.

    But that didn't happen. Instead, it failed. They all died. The end.

  5. #25
    Senior Member TheLastMohican's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Haphazard View Post

    But that didn't happen. Instead, it failed. They all died. The end.
    So which type do you think would have the functions working in the best harmony?

  6. #26
    Senior Member sriv's Avatar
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    A balance of everything, which is impossible because ideal is a direction, not an end. Same as trying to count infinity.
    Reyson: ...If you were to change your ways, I'm sure we could rebuild the relationship the two of us once shared.

    Naesala: Oh no, that I could never do. You see, humans are essential to the fulfillment of my ambitions.

    Reyson: You've changed, Naesala. If this is the path you've chosen, I've nothing left to say.

  7. #27
    Don't Judge Me! Haphazard's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Duke of York View Post
    So which type do you think would have the functions working in the best harmony?
    All types have the potential to be balanced, and have all functions working in good harmony, but most of the time they're not exactly balanced for the best.

    That said, a "J" type given the task to go from city A to city B would measure success by completing the job, a "P" type would measure success by what they got out of it and may not arrive at city B for a long, long time. Both ways have their their advantages and disadvantages and one cannot be deemed better than the other.

  8. #28
    Senior Member TheLastMohican's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Haphazard View Post
    All types have the potential to be balanced, and have all functions working in good harmony, but most of the time they're not exactly balanced for the best.

    That said, a "J" type given the task to go from city A to city B would measure success by completing the job, a "P" type would measure success by what they got out of it and may not arrive at city B for a long, long time. Both ways have their their advantages and disadvantages and one cannot be deemed better than the other.
    So basically, the plane will crash into the mountains no matter which type is in charge.

  9. #29
    Don't Judge Me! Haphazard's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Duke of York View Post
    So basically, the plane will crash into the mountains no matter which type is in charge.
    Well, maybe not crash into the mountains, but otherwise find a way to fail catastrophically, yes.

  10. #30
    Senior Member TheLastMohican's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Haphazard View Post
    Well, maybe not crash into the mountains, but otherwise find a way to fail catastrophically, yes.
    Perhaps ISTJ's would see the mountains ahead, and respond by turning all the way around and flying back to the airport.

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