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[NT] What are the differences between ENTJ & ENTP??

Haphazard

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Again, I find this ridiculous. All NT's are master stratregists. And only an idiot would go into war without a plan.

Love these stupid P stereotypes though.

A better question would be how flexible the plan would be. ENTP would go in with minimal reconnaisance before starting and ENTJ would have spies years and years in advance before invading, and then set up a comprehensive plan that would work like clockwork, but would clog up if something small went wrong. Then the ENTJ would yell at the perpetrators of the failure while the plan falls apart. ENTP would go in with a flexible, less-concentrated plan, and would likely get distracted by weapons development and eventually stop concentrated war effort to just work and test the weapons on the military of the defending country.
 

miss fortune

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Again, I find this ridiculous. All NT's are master stratregists. And only an idiot would go into war without a plan.

Love these stupid P stereotypes though.

I'm amazed at your inability to see what I typed!

Flying by the seat of your pants requires a lot of strategy, you have to be able to think on your feet at a moments notice. I dated an ENTJ for a while, he tended to like to have a plan to work with on things (he's now a political advisor) he was always annoyed with the fact that I wanted to come up with the plan as things happened.

:rolli: and you call yourself an N, shame on you not being able to see that! ;)

:cheers: to Haphazard for getting what I was saying!
 

htb

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Exactly half of this thread is a flame-war, which should make it easy for mods to cauterize.
 

miss fortune

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:dry: I really DON'T have a problem with that... I was just pointing it out! ENTJs usually have a lower tolerance for bullshit!

Yes- I'm pretty good at bullshit, but I do realize that it's good to have people out there who can call me on it every once in a while ;)
 

MetalWounds

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Again, I find this ridiculous. All NT's are master stratregists. And only an idiot would go into war without a plan.

Love these stupid P stereotypes though.

Actually, there has been documented military success in scenarios where only an objective and rough outline were pre-planned. Fluidity and accurately being able to adjust for changing circumstances are just as important as any rigid plan.
Your testimonies of knowledge or insight to any sort of personality types' behavior are largely discredited by your attitude, which also makes me believe that you have very little practical knowledge in any of the things you speak of. The most you seem to be capable of is proliferating tired stereotypes under the guise of some sort of higher knowledge. Nothing you have said so far is of any practical use, nor does it have any substantial validity to it.
 

SillySapienne

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Actually, there has been documented military success in scenarios where only an objective and rough outline were pre-planned. Fluidity and accurately being able to adjust for changing circumstances are just as important as any rigid plan.
Your testimonies of knowledge or insight to any sort of personality types' behavior are largely discredited by your attitude, which also makes me believe that you have very little practical knowledge in any of the things you speak of. The most you seem to be capable of is proliferating tired stereotypes under the guise of some sort of higher knowledge. Nothing you have said so far is of any practical use, nor does it have any substantial validity to it.
^QFT

Hai! Soo desu!
 

Valiant

Courage is immortality
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ENTJs are funnier than ENTPs in my opinion

FINALLY somebody who said something nice! :hug::cry:
I for one think that bias against entire types is at least as bad as racism :steam:
 

Haphazard

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ENTPs are sillier in their humor than ENTJs. It's really just a matter of preference.
 

Electric

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ENTPs are sillier in their humor than ENTJs. It's really just a matter of preference.

I gotta admit. ENTPs are sillier. I can picture them in the role of Goofy, Donald Duck, and any other silly Disney characters.
 

Mort Belfry

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ENTJ vs ENTP
=
Fascist vs Anarchist

ISTP vs INTP
=
Sadist vs Antichrist
 

sakuraba

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A better question would be how flexible the plan would be. ENTP would go in with minimal reconnaisance before starting and ENTJ would have spies years and years in advance before invading, and then set up a comprehensive plan that would work like clockwork, but would clog up if something small went wrong. Then the ENTJ would yell at the perpetrators of the failure while the plan falls apart. ENTP would go in with a flexible, less-concentrated plan, and would likely get distracted by weapons development and eventually stop concentrated war effort to just work and test the weapons on the military of the defending country.

Something like that. The ENTP would be more like "we're going to do this and then they are going to react by doing this, which is perfect because they'll set themselves up for the 2nd part of our plan and fall right into our trap having no where to go.."

thinking a few steps ahead. Ofcourse always having a Plan A Plan B Plan C, etc just in case. That's the benefit of having Ne supported by Ti. Endless supply of possibilities and scenerios ENTPs will work out in their head.
 

nemo

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If you believe at all what Keirsey writes:

ENTP - informative
ENTJ - directive

Instead of summarizing this on my own, I'm going to be an ass and start quoting Keirsey directly.

ENTPs, according to Keirsey, have "less and less desire, if they ever had any, to direct the activities of others, doing so only when forced to by circumstances."

NTPs have an "engineering and design" intelligence, and are less developed at "marshaling" and "contingency planning." Keirsey writes of ENTP Inventors:

"Outgoing and intensely curious, Inventors are apt to express interest in finding out about everything they come into contact with, and this can be a source of inspiration to others, who find themselves admiring the Inventor's insatiable hunger for knowledge."

ENTPs in particular, have highly developed "inventive" intelligence, hence they "characteristically have an eye out for a better way, always on the lookout for new projects, new activities, new procedures."

This causes them to be "the most reluctant of all the types to do things in a particular manner just because that is the way things have always been done," and in part gives them their anarchistic reputation because they "are confident in the value of their interests and display a charming capacity to ignore the standard, the traditional, and the authoritative."

The theme here is that ENTPs want to exercise their inventiveness and design new, better, and more innovative ways of doing, seeing, and thinking about things. They are *not* directive, and if left to their own devices have little or no desire to control others or impose order upon reality -- they only want to solve the problem.

ENTJs, on the other hand are directive. They "are bound to lead others, and from an early age they can be observed taking command of groups."

The natural leadership of the ENTJ is a manifestation of their "strong natural urge to give structure and direction wherever they are -- to harness people in the field and to direct them to achieve distant goals... [ENTJs] more than any other type desire (and generally have the ability) to visualize where the organization is going, and they seem able to communicate that vision to others."

They aren't stewards of an organization, though, Keirsey makes a point of saying that although ENTJs "are tolerant of established procedures, they can and will abandon any procedure when it can be shown to be ineffective in accomplishing its goal."

The prime motivation here is for efficiency. As Keirsey describes ENTJs:

"... there must always be a goal-directed reason for doing anything, and people's feelings usually are not sufficient reason. They prefer decisions to be based on impersonal data, want to work from well thought-out plans, like to use engineered operations -- and they expect others to follow suit. They are ever intent on reducing bureaucratic red tape, task redundancy, and aimless confusion in the workplace, and they are willing to dismiss employees who cannot get with the program and increase their efficiency."

The theme here is a ruthless reformer of systems (be them organization, scientific, etc.) into more efficient and manageable systems. They are *not* informative and, if they have anything to say about it, people won't be mulling around filing TPS reports. And while they are innovative, an ENTJ in charge of NASA is not going to let the ENTPs invent a pen that works in zero-gravity when they could just use a pencil. (I mean this in the most metaphorical sense, of course.)

The supposed salesmanship and "tactical" awareness of ENTPs discussed in this thread, seriously, is almost textbook ESTP, who "have no hesitation at all in approaching strangers and persuading them to do something."

Keirsey writes that ESTPs are the Promoters, defining it as such:

Promoting is the art of winning others to your position, giving them confidence to go along with what you propose, and [ESTPs] seem especially able to maneuver others in the direction they want them to go. In a sense, they are able to handle people with much the same skill as [ISTPs] handle tools, operate machines, or play musical instruments. You might say that people are instruments in the [ESTPs'] hands, and that they "play" them with great artistry.

Again -- this is because ESTPs are directive, and they happen to be directive in this particular way.

Keirsey Temperament Website: ENTP
Keirsey Temperament Website: ENTJ
Keirsey Temperament Website: ESTP
 

Valiant

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Nemo: That's another reason why I had doubts about me bing ESTP, I mistook the ESTP's tactical sense for the ENTJ's strategic sense and both are directive, which I happen to be.

Glad somebody stick to the archetypes/anywhere near to the science and doesn't throw insults about NTJ's all over the place. Thanks.
 

Chemgrl82

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Hmm... I know one ENTP IRL. He is very silly, smart, but surprisingly - not as quick-witted as I'd hope. I'll crack jokes and sometimes it really takes him a minute to get it... sometimes I just have to spell it out for him. Not sure if this is typical ENTP behavior or not.

I'm surprised in the big differences between us. He is very laid back, and always has a "cool" face on, even if he's going nuts inside. His motto is "Keep on livin'", regardless of what's going on. Seems to work.

As far as ENTJs goes... hm.. Maybe it's because I'm a female ENTJ, but I am not outwardly "evil". Most people say I come across very genial, charismatic, etc. The "evil" usually manifests itself inward first, and will usually leak out on those closest to me (unfortuantely). So I guess it does take a very strong person to put up with me long-term.

I never have any intentions of controlling anyone around me. My main goal is to control what directly affects ME. In turn, I probably end up trying to control others through situations we share together. However, I'm more aware of this lately and try to keep it in check more (at least with people that truly matter to me - others, I don't really care).

And yeah... ENTPs are definitely the practical jokers... I'm right there along with him, but it can turn nastier with me involved. :devil:

Edit: I think one of the harder things for people to handle with ENTJs is the intensity. I'm very intense about nearly everything I'm interested in. I become obsessed and don't really have a stopping point. I think I lack a lot of self-control when it comes to things that interest me. Too much, too fast, too many. That kinna thing.
 
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