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  1. #91
    Senior Member Happyman's Avatar
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    My first post! I am afraid that it's going to be long, since the subject is extremely interesting/important to me - here it goes

    I've started reading this discussion as one of the first ones on this forum since for a long time I wasn't sure if I am ENTJ or ENTP (to be honest after billions of tests and reading the descriptions I considered even being ENFP, ENFJ, ESTP and INTJ...). First, I was tested at work (I worked in HR department of a international FMCG corporation) and I was recognized as ENTJ. Then I took some tests by myself and I was still an ENTJ. At work I am very decisive and I work at an extreme pace, so I thought well.. that's who I am. People often are drawn 'under' my leadership, so I thought that this is just another proof. Other: I like discussions, I can easily defend 'both sides' of the conflict etc.
    But! Then many doubts started to appear. I'll put it in a form of a list
    1. I don't like forcing my decisions on people. I am convincing them. I accept if I fail.
    2. I feel uneasy being a leader outside of the workplace. I don't like controlling people. In case of some crisis or emergency though I always become a leader. I am super quick and cool-headed then. But people considering me as their leader on daily basis? Nah.. I prefer freedom.
    3. The description of childhood experiences of ENTP, described here and there were so accurate! Yup, I put every machine in our home into pieces. Being 6 years old I built a door-alarm to my room, using Lego parts and 'spider' (the thing you wear on your back that beeps every time you don't keep your back straight), and so on and so on. I was a leader now and then, but I was always a project leader (not an all-the-time-leader). I was like: 'Everybody listens! We'll build a racing-cart. And that is how we'll do it. You do this, you do that.
    4. My room is a mess (though you can blindfold me and I'll tell you exactly what is where)
    5. When I tell someone to do something, I leave them absolutely free hand how will they do it. I can just teach them what I believe is the smartest way.
    ENTJ will feel offended if you do something differently.
    6. I have problems working everyday. I create miracles in the last few days before deadline. ('My 'work-joke', as an answer to 'How much time do you need?' is: 'If you'll give me a week I'll do it in a week time, give me a month and I'll do it in a month time. In both cases I'll do it in the last 4 days.' Now everybody knows that it's not a joke... )

    So that's how I realized that I am rather an ENTP. I hope it is helpful to whoever wants to find the difference between ENTP and ENTJ.

    I also thought that I am maybe an ENFP or ENTJ since there are many (I'll skip the details) traits that would point to that. I also considered being ESTP (since I am very good at convincing people, reading their next move and I LOVE sport - I play soccer every second day ). But I'll quit here, since it's unrelated.

    Now, as to some crazy ideas of ENTP being super vicious. I am referring mostly to Sakuraba's posts. It's such a crap.
    Honestly.
    1. As to revenges: My father is ENFP and my gf is INFJ. From them I've learnt what does it mean to hate somebody (and also to truly love - to balance the equation ). I've never felt it. Sure, I can get angry at someone, but the next day I don't care about it. There are almost no people that I don't like (more people that I don't respect, but that's all NT's problem, I guess ). I've never revenged in my life. It's irrational. I think about something bad that someone did to me, I think about it for couple minutes, should I react and then I am just like, nah.. it doesn't make sense. All the NT's I know act this way. (my workplace is full of NT's, my high school class (specialized in mathematics&physics&computers ) was full of them and I have some in my family.
    2. ENTPs being soft.
    Ehm... If you read CAREFULLY some of the MBTI/Kiersey/Socionics texts you'll find out that ENTPs are the hardest to be intimidated. You press they press back. You cannot force ENTP to do anything (sometimes I wish, it would be possible, but no...). We have a saying in Poland: 'He froze off his ears just to make his mother angry' and I am sure it was some ENTP whose mother invented it. I was attending the worst primary school possible with criminals, drug dealers etc., being the smallest kid in the class and yet nobody wanted to do me anything wrong since I was known for never giving up (in fights etc.). It's all about dealing with crisis ability. We look like laid back, non-harmful people (who we are!), but attacked or in case of any crisis we have this amazing boost of energy, courage etc.

    All right, time to go to work. I respect every person who got through my whole post!!

    All the best!

  2. #92
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    ya. im probably entj

  3. #93
    Luctor et emergo Ezra's Avatar
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    Then please, grace us with good grammar.

  4. #94
    ✿ڿڰۣஇღ♥ wut ♥ღஇڿڰۣ✿ digesthisickness's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Happyman View Post
    My first post! I am afraid that it's going to be long, since the subject is extremely interesting/important to me - here it goes

    I've started reading this discussion as one of the first ones on this forum since for a long time I wasn't sure if I am ENTJ or ENTP (to be honest after billions of tests and reading the descriptions I considered even being ENFP, ENFJ, ESTP and INTJ...). First, I was tested at work (I worked in HR department of a international FMCG corporation) and I was recognized as ENTJ. Then I took some tests by myself and I was still an ENTJ. At work I am very decisive and I work at an extreme pace, so I thought well.. that's who I am. People often are drawn 'under' my leadership, so I thought that this is just another proof. Other: I like discussions, I can easily defend 'both sides' of the conflict etc.
    But! Then many doubts started to appear. I'll put it in a form of a list
    1. I don't like forcing my decisions on people. I am convincing them. I accept if I fail.
    2. I feel uneasy being a leader outside of the workplace. I don't like controlling people. In case of some crisis or emergency though I always become a leader. I am super quick and cool-headed then. But people considering me as their leader on daily basis? Nah.. I prefer freedom.
    3. The description of childhood experiences of ENTP, described here and there were so accurate! Yup, I put every machine in our home into pieces. Being 6 years old I built a door-alarm to my room, using Lego parts and 'spider' (the thing you wear on your back that beeps every time you don't keep your back straight), and so on and so on. I was a leader now and then, but I was always a project leader (not an all-the-time-leader). I was like: 'Everybody listens! We'll build a racing-cart. And that is how we'll do it. You do this, you do that.
    4. My room is a mess (though you can blindfold me and I'll tell you exactly what is where)
    5. When I tell someone to do something, I leave them absolutely free hand how will they do it. I can just teach them what I believe is the smartest way.
    ENTJ will feel offended if you do something differently.
    6. I have problems working everyday. I create miracles in the last few days before deadline. ('My 'work-joke', as an answer to 'How much time do you need?' is: 'If you'll give me a week I'll do it in a week time, give me a month and I'll do it in a month time. In both cases I'll do it in the last 4 days.' Now everybody knows that it's not a joke... )

    So that's how I realized that I am rather an ENTP. I hope it is helpful to whoever wants to find the difference between ENTP and ENTJ.

    I also thought that I am maybe an ENFP or ENTJ since there are many (I'll skip the details) traits that would point to that. I also considered being ESTP (since I am very good at convincing people, reading their next move and I LOVE sport - I play soccer every second day ). But I'll quit here, since it's unrelated.

    Now, as to some crazy ideas of ENTP being super vicious. I am referring mostly to Sakuraba's posts. It's such a crap.
    Honestly.
    1. As to revenges: My father is ENFP and my gf is INFJ. From them I've learnt what does it mean to hate somebody (and also to truly love - to balance the equation ). I've never felt it. Sure, I can get angry at someone, but the next day I don't care about it. There are almost no people that I don't like (more people that I don't respect, but that's all NT's problem, I guess ). I've never revenged in my life. It's irrational. I think about something bad that someone did to me, I think about it for couple minutes, should I react and then I am just like, nah.. it doesn't make sense. All the NT's I know act this way. (my workplace is full of NT's, my high school class (specialized in mathematics&physics&computers ) was full of them and I have some in my family.
    2. ENTPs being soft.
    Ehm... If you read CAREFULLY some of the MBTI/Kiersey/Socionics texts you'll find out that ENTPs are the hardest to be intimidated. You press they press back. You cannot force ENTP to do anything (sometimes I wish, it would be possible, but no...). We have a saying in Poland: 'He froze off his ears just to make his mother angry' and I am sure it was some ENTP whose mother invented it. I was attending the worst primary school possible with criminals, drug dealers etc., being the smallest kid in the class and yet nobody wanted to do me anything wrong since I was known for never giving up (in fights etc.). It's all about dealing with crisis ability. We look like laid back, non-harmful people (who we are!), but attacked or in case of any crisis we have this amazing boost of energy, courage etc.

    All right, time to go to work. I respect every person who got through my whole post!!

    All the best!
    two thumbs up and a toe.
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  5. #95
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    Hello, new ENTP here. I think generalizations about types are just that. Below are some of my characteristics, which I'm sure are as varied as many other ENTPs. So I would recommend against thinking that because you've known a few ENTPs that you know us as a group.

    If you came over to my house, you'd probably think I was a J, because I'm very neat, always have been. If you saw me at work, you'd probably think J, too, because I'm organized and detailed but also big picture. I tend to go without a plan when doing many things (relationships, career goals, travel and such), but when it counts, I can plan like crazy, like when I organized election nights in newsrooms down to minute by minute deadlines for dozens of stories that passed through hundreds of people's hands before they were published in the paper. I'm social, but I have gone months without much company, by choice. I've managed people, but I'm a laidback manager, except that I hold people to high standards for the final work and for how they treat one another while they're doing it. I get along with a lot of people and joke around, but I've never been a prankster. I can be vicious in defense of someone else I see as weaker, but I never feel the need to be vicious on my own behalf. I don't enjoy debating. To me, it's a pointless activity that takes up energy I could spend reading a book and otherwise learning something. In my experience, debating is more about verbal warfare than a real exchange of ideas. ... Anyway, I'm just one variety of ENTP.

  6. #96
    Senior Member Chemgrl82's Avatar
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    There are plenty of differences in functions and everything... however, you really can simplify it: Flexibility.

    Even today, I realize how I feel the innate need for schedules, structure with my time and all. Ps can go with the flow. When problems arise, they can approach them as they roll in. I, on the other hand, will put the problem that has arisen to the back of the list, while I'll continue on with my current problems. Ps can get things done as they occur.

  7. #97
    Senior Member Argus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by whatever View Post
    Is it really necissary to personalize all of this? I'd swear- y'all are both being feelers here :rolli:

    The good question for differentiation would be- If invading a country would you happily chart out your strategy and then march right on through with tanks or would you land there and then figure out what you were doing as things happened?

    shoot, want to see personalizing things? check out the socionics forums. freaking ridiculous.

    but seriously, you're right.

  8. #98
    Senior Member Terian's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ezra View Post
    Then please, grace us with good grammar.
    Heh, irony!
    The enemy's gate is down.

  9. #99
    Alexander the Terrible yenom's Avatar
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    I reviewed the thread and here is what i think.

    Again, everything says that ENTPs don't like to control people because their intelligence is more design/analysis oriented. If that makes us soft and weak, then so be it.

    I don't like to control people, yet i don't like to be controlled either, especially by an ESTJ. I like the ability and power to make my own decisions. Thats y if the leadership is too authoratative and rigid, i will challenge it and seek to lead myself.

    And I don't like to impose rules on other people, because I trust their brainpower rather than following a rigid plan.

    The theme here is that ENTPs want to exercise their inventiveness and design new, better, and more innovative ways of doing, seeing, and thinking about things. They are *not* directive, and if left to their own devices have little or no desire to control others or impose order upon reality -- they only want to solve the problem.
    INTPs are passive problem solvers, ENTPs are not. ENTPs will uses other people's brainpower and resources to solve a problem, which is very similiar to leading.

    ENTPs are, like, totally informative in communication and stuff, man.

    ENTJs are directive.

    I don't understand the descriptors (found mostly on this site) of ENTPs being manipulative, because as per Keirsey, those with informative communication have little or no desire to, you know, direct people.

    From MBTI theory, ENTPs should be more obviously intuitives (dominant Ne) and ENTJs should be more obviously thinkers (dominant Te).

    Also according to Keirsey, all Rationals are aloof, disengaged, and distant, so picking up on extroverted NTs can be a bit weird. I dunno where I was going with that, but yeah.
    You may speak for yourself here. But to speak for all entps , you have to know every entp on this planet, which I doubt is possible. You don't want entps to be labeled Machaivellian because you don't want a bad name, but there are quite a few entps in history that are Machaivellian.


    I am arguing against Nemo not because I want to humiliate him, but because I think sakuraba is being unfairly bashed for speaking her point of view.

  10. #100
    Senior Member animenagai's Avatar
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    sakuraba's obviously an ENTJ, but i have to say, most ENTJ's though being annoyingly militant at times, they at least have the hunger for knowledge and to get it right. sakuraba, you really need to read up on your MBTI. the very theory of MBTI says that there isn't one type that's better than another. they ALL have weaknesses. you may be able to pull off 'type A is smarter in general than type B', but 'better' is a lost cause. you also seem to have a strong bias against certain types, and i urge you, for your own sakes to get rid of them.

    back on topic, i got to go on a trip down to the south island of new zealand (i live in the north island) with a friend and his dad. his dad was an ENTJ. it became blatantly obvious how strong that Te function is. tidy tom was cool in that he was a great conversationalist, but he also did stuff like move around the furniture in every motel room we stayed in, demand a plan for whatever we did (even stuff like what we have for dinner), he even shook me awake several times in the middle of the night because i was snoring (apparently i don't when i sleep on my sides so he felt 'obliged' to wake me up and turn me around). ENTJ's also typically have anger issues (something also evident in our trip), but they see it as a weakness and do try to keep it down.

    the fieldmarshal (ENTJ) according to many sources of MBTI analysis is the most militant out of all the types. ENTP's have a P function, making them more relaxed (i don't have a stat telling you just how relaxed for this one). that in itself makes them very different indeed.

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