[NT] NTs in love, relationships, how do you rationalize love? How do you handle feelings?

[Brian2626]

As an ENTJ the only woman I ever felt love for was an admitted ENFJ, she also was the only woman in 20 years of life on planet earth to actually intimidate me. I think it was love but it was confusing, I usually am in control with most women, but not her. I couldn't get her out of my head, and I hated that. She drove me insane. People gravitated towards her as if she was the messiah and I was fascinated by that type of control she had on people without actually doing anything. She had a different type of reality distortion field than me. I never perused anything with her, and now she's dating some 27 year old, ex marine, college dropout loser who is fat and works at pizza hut and lives 2 states away, I assume because he is evangelical (another reason she drove me insane). This of course makes me hate her more, but if tomorrow she proposed to me, I would say yes. The 30 Rock character Jack Donaghy's (ENTJ) 18 year long divorce proceedings with Bianca would describe my future with this woman, if I had a future with her. I want to become the next Bill Gates or president of the U.S. to either impress her or prove she made a major mistake in not being with me, or a mixture of the both. Just a weird, friendship, or whatever I had with this girl. I guess the real question is, how the hell do NT types manage love? What do you do when all rationality goes out the window and you have to use your feelings to judge and respond to the needs of another? I can I avoid this in the future? Is it different for ENTPs or INTJs?

 

[xisnotx]

Love is nothing but a biological signal indicating that the two parties afflicted would make evolutionary desirable offspring.

How do I deal with that..well, I'd like to think that I'm above primal animalistic desires. As a human, I can override those desires...they don't control me. Forthought, opposable thumbs..etc etc

 

[FDG]

I don't rationalize love. I'm too busy trying to rationalize economics, meteorology, physics, etc. I'd rather let love just be.

 

[Unique]

Well I think love is a mixture of thoughts and feelings and its more-or-less experienced in the same way for all types, that said, every type expresses their feelings (or lack there-of) differently.

As far as I know ENTJs tend to require themselves to leave a situation in order to process their feelings, they usually act first and then reflect on their feelings (Fi)

I don't understand your main question though, are you asking if you can avoid using your emotions or experiencing love?

As an ENTJ you use a minimal amount of the feeling functions as it is, I would suggest getting more in touch with that side rather than trying to eliminate it.

 

[Coriolis]

I guess the real question is, how the hell do NT types manage love? What do you do when all rationality goes out the window and you have to use your feelings to judge and respond to the needs of another? I can I avoid this in the future? Is it different for ENTPs or INTJs?

Let me preface my answer by saying that I never describe my relationships or feelings in terms of love. I won't say I don't love, but the term "love" has always seemed too amorphous and imprecise to describe the things I do feel.

The key to how I manage "love" and related feelings is that all rationality never does go out the window. It gets suspended in certain circumstances, when feelings expand to monopolize my attention. I realize this, though, and take care to make no important decisions until the emotional overload passes, or I can distance myself from it.

Feelings are information, as are facts and experiences. I don't try to rationalize them away, or suppress them; that would be manipulating the data, or ignoring those anomalous data points that might be pointing to something important. I don't rely on feeling data to the exclusion of all other data, though. These include more objective observations of the other person, the practical realities of the situation, and knowledge of my personal values and priorities. I judge the merits of a relationship and make decisions on how to proceed using all these inputs together.

 

[ThatGirl]

The only time I can feel romantic love is when I love from afar. The whole irrationality, not feeling in control of my experience, the situation, having to rely on someone else, is just too much for the way my brain works--specially in the early stages. I feel like "love" brings out the worst in me, and would rather keep it to myself, than be exposed to everyone else, bearing its effects. As a result the first thing to go through my mind when I feel attraction, is to kill it till it dies.

Isn't that lovely?

 

[A window to the soul]

how the hell do NT types manage love?

It ain't easy.

What do you do when all rationality goes out the window and you have to use your feelings to judge and respond to the needs of another?

If you're sane and sober, there's no such thing as "all rationality going out the window." You have the power to bring your thoughts and feelings into captivity. Take responsibility.

I avoid using my feelings to judge and respond to the needs of others because they come and go. I believe love is a choice: this is my family [my friend, my love interest], I will do what's best/right (regardless of how I feel), I will suck it up and apologize when I hurt them, etc.

Edit: Also, with regard to love & relationships, knowledge has been the most helpful thing for me, which I acquire through books, observing others, experience,...

how can I avoid this in the future?

Mind over matter and a leap of faith.

Is it different for ENTPs or INTJs?

It's probably even different for individuals.

 

[shoshana]

As an ENTJ the only woman I ever felt love for was an admitted ENFJ, she also was the only woman in 20 years of life on planet earth to actually intimidate me. I think it was love but it was confusing, I usually am in control with most women, but not her. I couldn't get her out of my head, and I hated that. She drove me insane. People gravitated towards her as if she was the messiah and I was fascinated by that type of control she had on people without actually doing anything. She had a different type of reality distortion field than me. I never perused anything with her, and now she's dating some 27 year old, ex marine, college dropout loser who is fat and works at pizza hut and lives 2 states away, I assume because he is evangelical (another reason she drove me insane). This of course makes me hate her more, but if tomorrow she proposed to me, I would say yes. The 30 Rock character Jack Donaghy's (ENTJ) 18 year long divorce proceedings with Bianca would describe my future with this woman, if I had a future with her. I want to become the next Bill Gates or president of the U.S. to either impress her or prove she made a major mistake in not being with me, or a mixture of the both. Just a weird, friendship, or whatever I had with this girl. I guess the real question is, how the hell do NT types manage love? What do you do when all rationality goes out the window and you have to use your feelings to judge and respond to the needs of another? I can I avoid this in the future? Is it different for ENTPs or INTJs?

your questions made me think of this ted talk i saw a few years ago --absolutely fascinating and you wont feel that you've wasted 15.5 min of your life

http://www.ted.com/talks/lang/en/helen_fisher_studies_the_brain_in_love.html


ENTJs are intensely driven and considering the effects of romantic love on the brain I feel that it makes love even more difficult to 'manage'. love is awesome and all of the synapses that she opened up in your brain will be triggered by another person that you might see fit for mating in the future. i think entjs go hard -- we'd either attempt to bring her into our life as a mate or replace her with lovers and friends and activities an other fixations that bring up our dopamine levels until another mate comes along. one thing is for certain i would never personally want to stay in touch with her if i wasn't attempting to win her back in some tangible way. if its over i'm done and trying my best to move foward

 

[shoshana]

The only time I can feel romantic love is when I love from afar. The whole irrationality, not feeling in control of my experience, the situation, having to rely on someone else, is just too much for the way my brain works--specially in the early stages. I feel like "love" brings out the worst in me, and would rather keep it to myself, than be exposed to everyone else, bearing its effects. As a result the first thing to go through my mind when I feel attraction, is to kill it till it dies.

Isn't that lovely?

i used to fall in love on the subway all the time for these reasons. ironically i am in love now, and looking back its not the same type of mental fixation (at least it wasnt for me).

 

[rav3n]

We be fucked in the head when it comes to emotions.

Reading the little blurb you wrote in the OP, sounds like you're confusing being jacked around by a drama queen with something deeper and more meaningful. We're also normally quite detached from people so when someone can push your emotion buttons, the impact can be misinterpreted. Look to your childhood and how your parents addressed relationships with each other, with you or with others.

 

[A window to the soul]

Reading the little blurb you wrote in the OP, sounds like you're confusing being jacked around by a drama queen with something deeper and more meaningful.

How is that? He said he never pursued anything with her.

 

[rav3n]

How is that? He said he never pursued anything with her.

How did you manage to interpret what I said, to what you're intimating?

 

[A window to the soul]

How did you manage to interpret what I said, to what you're intimating?

"being jacked around by a drama queen with something deeper and more meaningful"

I took it for face value.

She didn't jack him around. He said he didn't pursue her because he was intimidated by her and he missed out (she has a BF now). He wanted to know how he could avoid that in the future.

Edit: In other words, he wanted to know how he could manage the feelings that hindered him from pursuing her (i.e., intimidation).

 

[rav3n]

I took it for face value.

No wonder.

She didn't jack him around. He said he didn't pursue her because he was intimidated by her and he missed out (she has a BF now). He wanted to know how he could avoid that in the future.

Someone can jack you around by pushing your buttons, whether intentionally or not. As far as not "perusing" her, there were a number of reasons why he didn't.

 

[Antimony]

*shifty eyes*

I'm still working on this one. In fact, I'll be watching this thread for wisdom from experience, which I am admittedly lacking at my age.

My biggest problems with relationships are: once I date the guy, either it will completely succeed, and I will spend the rest of my life with them, or it will crumble somehow, and I will have to go through a break up.

Break ups are not fun. I try to avoid that. In doing so, I end up handling my emotions by trying to handle them too much or not at all.

I always want to pursue them to their fullest extent and exhaust their possibilities. An endless chase where if I win, I am bored, and if I lose, well, I am probably still with that person. Unless something else happens.

God, thinking about relationships is so depressing.

 

[A window to the soul]

No wonder.

Someone can jack you around by pushing your buttons, whether intentionally or not. As far as not "perusing" her, there were a number of reasons why he didn't.

He never said she pushed his buttons.

He wanted to know how he could manage the feelings that hindered him from pursuing her (i.e., intimidation).

 

[rav3n]

He never said she pushed his buttons.

He wanted to know how he could manage the feelings that hindered him from pursuing her (i.e., intimidation).

:facepalm: Whatev...

 

[A window to the soul]

now she's dating some 27 year old, ex marine, college dropout loser who is fat and works at pizza hut and lives 2 states away, I assume because he is evangelical (another reason she drove me insane).

For some, there's more to love than looks, money, degrees, and religion. Maybe he's more confident than you, or works harder, or says the right things, or emotionally connects, or is thoughtful and generous, or is all of the above. One thing is for sure, he didn't let his fears or imperfections defeat him; he asked her out. I find that impressive.

Specifically, what were you afraid of?

 

[Brian2626]

For some, there's more to love than looks, money, degrees, and religion. Maybe he's more confident than you, or works harder, or says the right things, or emotionally connects, or is thoughtful and generous, or is all of the above. One thing is for sure, he didn't let his fears or imperfections defeat him; he asked her out. I find that impressive.

Specifically, what were you afraid of?

I was intimidated by her because of the fact that she made me feel different, my entire life has been an exercise in controlling my emotions. When I approach a woman it "feels" like a business transaction, we both work well together thus it makes since that we should be together. Now, I am still young and according to various MBTI articles I have read until you hit your 30's, generally your undeveloped function (Fi for ENTJ) remain virtually non-existent. So I guess what the real question is, how can I learn to process emotions so as to not repeat these mistakes and not go into lock down, hyper-focus when a woman I like shows up. Other things that intimidated me was just the way she carried herself, it was almost angelic, she had the world at her fingertips and didn't seem to realize it, plus she would stand up to me which I like women who can and will stand up to me. I am surprised that I actually liked a non-NT type, my previous 2 girlfriends were ENTP and INTP, I like ENTPs but me and the ENTP girl had a rocky relationship, people did not enjoy being around us AT ALL. I think the thing that bothered me the most was the fact that she would argue for no real purpose, I only argue to accomplish something, to defeat my opponents and win. She played devils advocate constantly and I hated it. The INTP girl was a lot like Liz Lemon from 30 Rock, so go watch that show and you'll have a rough idea what an INTP woman is like (Super Nerd is how I would describe her). I must apologies for rambling on.

 

[A window to the soul]

I was intimidated by her because of the fact that she made me feel different, my entire life has been an exercise in controlling my emotions. When I approach a woman it "feels" like a business transaction, we both work well together thus it makes since that we should be together. Now, I am still young and according to various MBTI articles I have read until you hit your 30's, generally your undeveloped function (Fi for ENTJ) remain virtually non-existent. So I guess what the real question is, how can I learn to process emotions so as to not repeat these mistakes and not go into lock down, hyper-focus when a woman I like shows up. Other things that intimidated me was just the way she carried herself, it was almost angelic, she had the world at her fingertips and didn't seem to realize it, plus she would stand up to me which I like women who can and will stand up to me. I am surprised that I actually liked a non-NT type, my previous 2 girlfriends were ENTP and INTP, I like ENTPs but me and the ENTP girl had a rocky relationship, people did not enjoy being around us AT ALL. I think the thing that bothered me the most was the fact that she would argue for no real purpose, I only argue to accomplish something, to defeat my opponents and win. She played devils advocate constantly and I hated it. The INTP girl was a lot like Liz Lemon from 30 Rock, so go watch that show and you'll have a rough idea what an INTP woman is like (Super Nerd is how I would describe her). I must apologies for rambling on.

I identify with your idea on using how well you work together as a means of gauging the success of the relationship.

In order to come up with a solution to your intimidation troubles, let's think about where intimidation comes from...

uncertainty breeds fear--> fear breeds intimidation --> intimidation is a goal blocker--> goal blockage leads to frustration--> frustration leads to anger (and in your first post I detected a little anger, so I might be on to something here.)
Wow and look, uncertainty is the root of your troubles! Now we can build a solution...

Hypothesis:
If an ENTJ wants to beat intimidation, it seems logical that the ENTJ would simply need to eliminate the uncertainty. In order to eliminate uncertainty, the ENTJ would have to learn everything they could about the person that intimidates them.

The more you know.

How'd I do?