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  1. #21
    nee andante bechimo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Brian2626 View Post
    So I guess what the real question is, how can I learn to process emotions so as to not repeat these mistakes and not go into lock down, hyper-focus when a woman I like shows up.
    That's your Ni speaking to you. Listen to it. It sees something wrong, something off in the pattern. So while you might be physically attracted, there's something off that makes you feel vulnerable.

    Btw, I'm a mid-thirties eNTJ. Just had something like this as a recent experience. Felt very vulnerable around a guy even though I was attracted. Low and behold there was good reason for it. It's just a matter of identifying what was off and the vulnerability goes away.

  2. #22
    Senior Member ceecee's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Brian2626 View Post
    As an ENTJ the only woman I ever felt love for was an admitted ENFJ, she also was the only woman in 20 years of life on planet earth to actually intimidate me. I think it was love but it was confusing, I usually am in control with most women, but not her. I couldn't get her out of my head, and I hated that. She drove me insane. People gravitated towards her as if she was the messiah and I was fascinated by that type of control she had on people without actually doing anything. She had a different type of reality distortion field than me. I never perused anything with her, and now she's dating some 27 year old, ex marine, college dropout loser who is fat and works at pizza hut and lives 2 states away, I assume because he is evangelical (another reason she drove me insane). This of course makes me hate her more, but if tomorrow she proposed to me, I would say yes. The 30 Rock character Jack Donaghy's (ENTJ) 18 year long divorce proceedings with Bianca would describe my future with this woman, if I had a future with her.
    None of this sounds like a real great basis for a relationship. I'm married to an ENFJ and they can be drama queens (butthurt my feelings you cold, soulless INTJ!! is more of what I have heard than all out drama) without a doubt. Sooooo she is with this loser instead of being with you and man, is that offensive! Except you never perused anything with her. You sat there thinking WTF?? and how much you hate that she is controlling your thoughts. Well, I hate to break it to you but of you don't make your feelings known and I don't know, expect other people to use telepathy to figure it out...you won't get far with relationships. The religion thing - you think it drove you insane now, just imagine what it would be like if you were with her so, think long and hard about this. If it's a deal breaker for her, there may be more and she might just not turn out to be the messiah everyone is drawn to so, it's best to mentally remove her from that pedestal for your own good.

    I want to become the next Bill Gates or president of the U.S. to either impress her or prove she made a major mistake in not being with me, or a mixture of the both. Just a weird, friendship, or whatever I had with this girl. I guess the real question is, how the hell do NT types manage love? What do you do when all rationality goes out the window and you have to use your feelings to judge and respond to the needs of another? I can I avoid this in the future? Is it different for ENTPs or INTJs?
    You want to be a powerful and rich man so you can stand there and go...see! Look at what you're missing! I'm awesome and you're living in some dumpy apartment with the fat fuck pizza guy. Look what I did for you! You stupid bitch!

    Do you see the retardation I wrote up there? I hope so.

    In my 40+ years on this earth, I have still not figured out love. My response to the needs of another (my husband and my children) is that I love them as much as I love myself and their needs are as important as my own and often more important. When I make a decision my thoughts are about how it will impact them. The love I have for my husband is directly reflected in the love he has for me and our life together. For all the possible drama queen, butthurt-neess, he is my safe harbor and when I can't verbalize how I feel, it's ok. He knows because I show him, everyday. I never miss a chance to tell him I love him. He has the highest status of anyone in my life because he is worthy of it and I make sure he knows this. I'm not so concerned with "handling" my feelings and it is ok to let it out sometimes. People won't freak out as much as you think they will and sometimes, even return them. You can't rationalize it, you can't plan it and you can't predict it. That's all I can tell you.

    P.S. Yes she made you feel different and yes it's scary but it's not a business transaction. Oy. Please stop thinking that like that unless you are negotiating with a prostitute.
    I like to rock n' roll all night and *part* of every day. I usually have errands... I can only rock from like 1-3.

  3. #23
    @.~*virinaĉo*~.@ Totenkindly's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Brian2626 View Post
    I guess the real question is, how the hell do NT types manage love? What do you do when all rationality goes out the window and you have to use your feelings to judge and respond to the needs of another? I can I avoid this in the future?
    ha ha.... well, for me it was like learning a new language, and very uncomfortable at first. I still struggle some with engaging someone relationally and not just from an informative POV. Sometimes now I can do it instinctively, but I can be jolted out of that mental mindset; and I can't really help it, by nature I'm a "step back and analyze" person. It helped that I just got older, so other things that once took the place of relationships became less important to me and I didn't mind sacrificing them as much in order to engage more deeply.
    "Hey Capa -- We're only stardust." ~ "Sunshine"

    “Pleasure to me is wonder—the unexplored, the unexpected, the thing that is hidden and the changeless thing that lurks behind superficial mutability. To trace the remote in the immediate; the eternal in the ephemeral; the past in the present; the infinite in the finite; these are to me the springs of delight and beauty.” ~ H.P. Lovecraft

  4. #24
    Analytical Dreamer Coriolis's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Brian2626 View Post
    I was intimidated by her because of the fact that she made me feel different, my entire life has been an exercise in controlling my emotions. When I approach a woman it "feels" like a business transaction, we both work well together thus it makes since that we should be together. Now, I am still young and according to various MBTI articles I have read until you hit your 30's, generally your undeveloped function (Fi for ENTJ) remain virtually non-existent. So I guess what the real question is, how can I learn to process emotions so as to not repeat these mistakes and not go into lock down, hyper-focus when a woman I like shows up.
    When dealing with people, you cannot eliminate the uncertainty, you can at best reduce it. What you are considering intimidation seems related to risk. Showing your interest in someone and asking her out leaves you open to rejection, possibly even ridicule. I have found the best way to mitigate risk is to consider the various possible outcomes, including the worst case scenario. Decide how you would handle each of these. You are now taking a calculated risk, and are prepared for whatever happens. This way, when the emotions of the moment come, you already have a framework of how to proceed.
    Quote Originally Posted by ceecee View Post
    P.S. Yes she made you feel different and yes it's scary but it's not a business transaction. Oy. Please stop thinking that like that unless you are negotiating with a prostitute.
    It may not be a business transaction, but working well together is a good sign. By extension, if you don't work well with someone, a relationship might be difficult to maintain. When my SO and I realized our relationship had become quite serious, we both, almost in unspoken agreement, stepped back from it long enough to analyze as objectively as possible whether we should commit for the long term. When this analysis validated what we were feeling, we knew we could trust our decision. (A similar analysis with an ex failed, sealing the end of that relationship.)
    I've been called a criminal, a terrorist, and a threat to the known universe. But everything you were told is a lie. The truth is, they've taken our freedom, our home, and our future. The time has come for all humanity to take a stand...

  5. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by ceecee View Post
    Do you see the retardation I wrote up there? I hope so.
    Yes.

    [Seriously, good post.]

    Quote Originally Posted by andante View Post
    That's your Ni speaking to you. Listen to it. It sees something wrong, something off in the pattern. So while you might be physically attracted, there's something off that makes you feel vulnerable.

    Btw, I'm a mid-thirties eNTJ. Just had something like this as a recent experience. Felt very vulnerable around a guy even though I was attracted. Low and behold there was good reason for it. It's just a matter of identifying what was off and the vulnerability goes away.
    Coincidentally, your post complements my hypothesis and gets right down to the technical nitty gritty.

    How did you reconcile your Ni-suspicion that something was off? (You said you identified what was off, but I'm wondering if you had to have a conversation with your SO to facilitate that. I'm trying to understand how you overcome vulnerability/uncertainty.)

  6. #26
    FRACTALICIOUS phobik's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by shoshana View Post
    i used to fall in love on the subway all the time for these reasons. ironically i am in love now, and looking back its not the same type of mental fixation (at least it wasnt for me).
    I used to fall in love like you, too, but then I toke an arrow to the knee.
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  7. #27
    nee andante bechimo's Avatar
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    I ditched him. Ni was right.

  8. #28
    Dependable Skeleton Engineer's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Brian2626 View Post
    As an ENTJ the only woman I ever felt love for was an admitted ENFJ, she also was the only woman in 20 years of life on planet earth to actually intimidate me. I think it was love but it was confusing, I usually am in control with most women, but not her. I couldn't get her out of my head, and I hated that. She drove me insane. People gravitated towards her as if she was the messiah and I was fascinated by that type of control she had on people without actually doing anything. She had a different type of reality distortion field than me. I never perused anything with her, and now she's dating some 27 year old, ex marine, college dropout loser who is fat and works at pizza hut and lives 2 states away, I assume because he is evangelical (another reason she drove me insane). This of course makes me hate her more, but if tomorrow she proposed to me, I would say yes. The 30 Rock character Jack Donaghy's (ENTJ) 18 year long divorce proceedings with Bianca would describe my future with this woman, if I had a future with her. I want to become the next Bill Gates or president of the U.S. to either impress her or prove she made a major mistake in not being with me, or a mixture of the both. Just a weird, friendship, or whatever I had with this girl. I guess the real question is, how the hell do NT types manage love? What do you do when all rationality goes out the window and you have to use your feelings to judge and respond to the needs of another? I can I avoid this in the future? Is it different for ENTPs or INTJs?
    Well, I have to be honest here, if you never actually went over anything related to romance with her, you don't have anyone to be grumpy at but yourself...?
    Women do appreciate if you go out there and let 'em know what you feel. Just take action. May not always win, but you'll have done all you could, so no regrets there.

    I knew an INFP like that, but it was more of a mutual lust attraction than love. So many hormones between us, and she was kind of a confused nympho, but I know the feelings that you get afterwards. One day becoming awesome to prove her wrong! That'd show her!
    But you know what? There are other fish in the sea. That's a cliche, for sure, but it's no less true. There are multiple people to fall in love with.

    Answer to your final question: nope, you can't avoid it... Love enjoys hiding in the bushes until your back is turned and you feel safe, then walloping you over the head with a giant cricket bat. And bam, you're down again. It's not fun, but it's life.

    As for managing love, I kind of just go with it. As weird as that sounds, it helps. Just do what feels right.

    Damn, I sound like a hippie.
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  9. #29
    Senior Member Neutralpov's Avatar
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    Could be that you are a sucker for chemistry also (met one true mindmate- INTP- in my life and I about thought I was made of jello at the time I was so overwhelmed). It helped to come out the other side of the relationship while time passed and see that chemistry seriously messes with my head but is only one piece of the equation as Coriolis mentioned. Those feelings (or what I call chemistry) are independent of compatibility, communication, faith, values and all must be matched to work out. Either way she didn't pick you: that should be reason enough to be a deal-breaker. Also my experience showed me that others may not value chemistry, or love feelings as you call them, as much as you do. I find it something too rare to pass up investigating, many others do not; that in itself can be a deal-breaker on their end.
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  10. #30

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    Well, first I break it down by asking myself "is this love, limerance, lust, mild attraction, or other?"

    If it's limerance, I kill it with fire, because nothing productive or good usually comes from limerance. If it's mild attraction I tell myself to hold off to see where things go. If it's lust or love, I tend to just let it happen. No use fighting, really. And "other" is just a wild card in case I discover there's more to this spectrum of feelings I haven't come across yet.

    But typically feelings come and go. Even if I'm feeling any one of those things, I can pretty safely assume I probably won't be feeling it sometime in the future. Unless I make a concerted effort to cultivate that particular feeling.

    Like love. Relationships tend to thrive on that thing so I try to keep it around.

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