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  1. #41
    Wake, See, Sing, Dance Cellmold's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by entropie View Post
    A F has the same capability of loving people, like he has to hate people. Most Fs tho will never understand that.
    I understand this well, which is why some of the most dangerous criminals are often F's not T's.

    Of course most T's dont understand that they are not as impartial as they would like to believe and you will often find a corner of consideration that they will avoid because it is an unwelcome truth to their minds, just as they have a knack for pointing out unwelcome, but necessary truths for others.

    When I say this of course I dont mean being rude or impolite, but the tearing of romantic blankets that sometimes get raised around perceptions of the world.
    'One of (Lucas) Cranach's masterpieces, discussed by (Joseph) Koerner, is in it's self-referentiality the perfect expression of left-hemisphere emptiness and a precursor of post-modernism. There is no longer anything to point to beyond, nothing Other, so it points pointlessly to itself.' - Iain McGilChrist

    Suppose a tree fell down, Pooh, when we were underneath it?"
    "Suppose it didn't," said Pooh, after careful thought.
    Piglet was comforted by this.
    - A.A. Milne.

  2. #42
    resonance entropie's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by AffirmitiveAnxiety View Post
    I understand this well, which is why some of the most dangerous criminals are often F's not T's.

    Of course most T's dont understand that they are not as impartial as they would like to believe and you will often find a corner of consideration that they will avoid because it is an unwelcome truth to their minds, just as they have a knack for pointing out unwelcome, but necessary truths for others.

    When I say this of course I dont mean being rude or impolite, but the tearing of romantic blankets that sometimes get raised around perceptions of the world.
    Yes, 100% the truth. You should have been there when we had that thread about 'real objectivity' and some people claimed that they were actually robots metaphorically spoken. That they have in every situation 100% control over the logical conclusion.

    The majore joke is that rationality, logic and reason is a human construct, a model from philosophy. If it was the epitome of T-ness, what if some day (hard to imagine but not impossible) there was a different form than logic being our drive for self-preservation. I mean if quantum physics is right, you cant even say that the universe is logical and therefore you cant say that logic is the basis to our existence.

    I wouldnt blame anyone who finds peace in thinking he was 100% logical and cold-blooded, I would only accuse him of lacking the ability to look beyond his own existance and see the big picture. Here is a common mistake I do, I often start arguements with stubborn people, who by all means follow one single clear line of action (like behaving like Sheldon Cooper). What I forget tho is that not everyone has the wish to being versatile and knowledgeable in a lot of fields and directions like I do. Some people are just happy with their fields and excel in it to great heigths.

    The same goes for the dealing with the self. I am always surprised when F-types or T-types do nothing on this forum but analyzing their own type. This never really intrested me cause I know what makes me a T-type. The only thing that intrests me is how I am perceived by others and what I do to others and thru that I want to learn to better myself (to a certain extent only of course ). I find being an explorer, is the most desireable goal for me in life.

    Ok that all has not much to do with your post no more, so I beg your pardon, but I completly lost the red line. :o)
    [URL]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tEBvftJUwDw&t=0s[/URL]

  3. #43
    Wake, See, Sing, Dance Cellmold's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by entropie View Post
    Yes, 100% the truth. You should have been there when we had that thread about 'real objectivity' and some people claimed that they were actually robots metaphorically spoken. That they have in every situation 100% control over the logical conclusion.

    The majore joke is that rationality, logic and reason is a human construct, a model from philosophy. If it was the epitome of T-ness, what if some day (hard to imagine but not impossible) there was a different form than logic being our drive for self-preservation. I mean if quantum physics is right, you cant even say that the universe is logical and therefore you cant say that logic is the basis to our existence.

    I wouldnt blame anyone who finds peace in thinking he was 100% logical and cold-blooded, I would only accuse him of lacking the ability to look beyond his own existance and see the big picture. Here is a common mistake I do, I often start arguements with stubborn people, who by all means follow one single clear line of action (like behaving like Sheldon Cooper). What I forget tho is that not everyone has the wish to being versatile and knowledgeable in a lot of fields and directions like I do. Some people are just happy with their fields and excel in it to great heigths.

    The same goes for the dealing with the self. I am always surprised when F-types or T-types do nothing on this forum but analyzing their own type. This never really intrested me cause I know what makes me a T-type. The only thing that intrests me is how I am perceived by others and what I do to others and thru that I want to learn to better myself (to a certain extent only of course ). I find being an explorer, is the most desireable goal for me in life.

    Ok that all has not much to do with your post no more, so I beg your pardon, but I completly lost the red line. :o)
    I agree these are some great points for consideration and dont worry if you lost the red line, I go on random tirades all the time, besides what you said was completely relevant.
    'One of (Lucas) Cranach's masterpieces, discussed by (Joseph) Koerner, is in it's self-referentiality the perfect expression of left-hemisphere emptiness and a precursor of post-modernism. There is no longer anything to point to beyond, nothing Other, so it points pointlessly to itself.' - Iain McGilChrist

    Suppose a tree fell down, Pooh, when we were underneath it?"
    "Suppose it didn't," said Pooh, after careful thought.
    Piglet was comforted by this.
    - A.A. Milne.

  4. #44
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    Quote Originally Posted by EcK View Post
    Critical ? Was he insecure about your relationship or / and frustrated by his job ? (throwing darts in the dark here so I m not making actual assumptions, just asking)
    No reason to be insecure and aren't we all. Just critical.

  5. #45
    The Memes Justify the End EcK's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Reverie View Post
    No reason to be insecure and aren't we all. Just critical.
    I find people are rarely critical without a reason. Come on. you can do better than that.
    Expression of the post modern paradox : "For the love of god, religions are so full of shit"

    Theory is always superseded by Fact...
    ... In theory.

    “I’d hate to die twice. It’s so boring.”
    Richard Feynman's last recorded words

    "Great is the human who has not lost his childlike heart."
    Mencius (Meng-Tse), 4th century BCE

  6. #46
    resonance entropie's Avatar
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    You would be surprised if you knew what people do without a reason
    [URL]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tEBvftJUwDw&t=0s[/URL]

  7. #47
    The Memes Justify the End EcK's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by entropie View Post
    You would be surprised if you knew what people do without a reason
    After an extensive study of cognitive biases. I don't think so.
    Also I am rarely surprised by people. Though I am surprised by genuinely 'random' events.
    Expression of the post modern paradox : "For the love of god, religions are so full of shit"

    Theory is always superseded by Fact...
    ... In theory.

    “I’d hate to die twice. It’s so boring.”
    Richard Feynman's last recorded words

    "Great is the human who has not lost his childlike heart."
    Mencius (Meng-Tse), 4th century BCE

  8. #48
    resonance entropie's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by EcK View Post
    After an extensive study of cognitive biases. I don't think so.
    Also I am rarely surprised by people. Though I am surprised by genuinely 'random' events.
    I have choosen to learn to be surprised again by people. I am risking my relationship with my Fi girlfriend thru that but I dont want 'the learning about life' to just end at some point, with no alternative. My gf is absolute and I am sure that her way is a way to get happy in life. But its not my way and if she cant be intrested to be more flexible about her absolutes, it will end at some point.

    I dont want to be happy in life. I love the sadness
    [URL]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tEBvftJUwDw&t=0s[/URL]

  9. #49
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    Quote Originally Posted by Reverie View Post
    From my experience of living with an ENTP you must have just come accros a rotten egg. My ex was very loyal with his close circle of friends. In terms of being faithful he was very. Had always been in long term committed relationships. Loyalty if termed as keeping a secret, no. Some people just can't keep secrets. ;D
    I think there's a world of difference between having a vulnerable side and showing it. Maybe some aren't so comfortable showing that side of themselves. However in my experience my ex was always very candid and revealing when discussing things with me. I think he could distance himself if it came to himself and view himself quite objectively, to the extent that is possible to anyone. To people who were not in his inner circle all you mentioned in the above quote would apply. People found him very brash, hotheaded and slightly suspect. I don't think it was a fair or correct assessment. The beef I had with my ex was the fact he used to indulge in what I'd describe as nitpicking and naggging and it was constant, concerning pretty much everything when it came to me. I don't know if that's a common ENTP problem, being thought of as too critical. It's sometimes said to be an INFJ problem...but I definetly met someone who trumped me on that...He was super critical and I found that too exhausting to live with, but hey it's not easy to live with yourself if your critical side drives away people you care for. It's hard to be prickly... so I harbor no ill will.
    I thought generally speaking he was charming, caring and had an endearing puckish quality to him. But at the same time he was often sad and unhappy, somewhat jaded and had a hard time getting positive response from people because of his unconventionality and disregard for people's feelings or social graces (This particular specimen of man is closely akin to Kenny from Kenny vs. Spenny...). Still that said, one of the finest people I've known.
    This was a pretty accurate description of some of my younger experiences in relationships. In light of the the question in the OP, I never consciously thought about being vulnerable. Never, that I can think of. I generally choose my words wisely, while saying what I want. This in turn lead to me being ultra sensitive to those who found me critical. Although that sensitivity didn't happen until I was much older.

  10. #50
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    Quote Originally Posted by AffirmitiveAnxiety View Post
    When I say this of course I ... mean ... the tearing of romantic blankets that sometimes get raised around perceptions of the world.
    This is a very noble goal. I don't think it would be easy to find an NT who would say otherwise.

    I am afraid though most people might be hard pressed to find the extra resources to cope with frequent, albeit much needed, paradigm shifts.

    It's the standard reaction to try to avoid pain and danger.

    Sometimes these situations might trick people into working against themselves. Sometimes they sense they are too fragile to stir up trouble.

    It's normal to be frustrated when you've put so much efforts into something that others refuse to acknowledge or develop in themselves.

    An interesting twist would be to imagine the way the average NT feels when confronted with people who refuse to push emotions aside and strive for objectivity. I think most people forget this requires effort. Objectivity is a goal of a comparable scope as:
    Quote Originally Posted by StarsPer View Post
    loyalty, compassion, vulnerability and ... honesty.

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