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  1. #101
    Senior Member sriv's Avatar
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    It is a different type of wisdom. With all seriousness, the wisdom a child has.

    The older I grow the more I distrust the familiar doctrine that age brings wisdom.
    ~ H. L. Mencken

    The third choice would be the best considering that is what I would do. But does she really want to do what I would do?

    Its all good-natured.

  2. #102
    a white iris elfinchilde's Avatar
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    sriv, yes. the wisdom of a child is something that is underrated. It is perhaps only a child's eyes, and a child's voice, that will dare to point out the fact that the Emperor wears nothing.

    Tho, in modern times, is it a wise thing to do? At what cost, truth?

    But on to other, more interesting topics, shall we? Apollonian brought up some good ideas. (i shall have to take the issue of measurement another time. it's 230 am my time now, and i'm )

    Quote Originally Posted by Apollonian View Post
    I wonder if we could somehow develop a model similar to the Myers-Briggs which would describe character instead of personality.

    What makes for good character? Especially, how does an INTJ address the weaknesses of his or her character without compromising the strengths?
    I would think that good character is one which allows you to follow your own beliefs, yet not tread upon those of others: essentially, the balance of the self between the idealism of individuality, and the realistic demands of society.

    The strengths of an INTJ (if we're going into type): would be his/her quiet strength, the meticulousness of thought, and the ability to follow-through.

    I had mentioned once in some other thread, that INTJs seem to have trouble with initiation though? Because they think and consider so much, that sometimes, they may miss an opportunity that just arises? (not sure if this is true for all INTJs though.). In this specific sense: by learning at times to follow instinct--Ne, instead of Ni--an INTJ may seize the moment, upon which his natural strength of ordering his environment would see a project to due completion.

    Emotion tends to be the main weakness of the INTJ, i think. They are seldom aware how they come across to others, or the need for social niceties. This may actually hinder an INTJ's progress in the real world, especially if the INTJ is working in a high context society/job, where little subtle gestures matter.

    The message of an INTJ is always clear. Perhaps it is the style that can be worked upon?

    because in any communication, there are three levels: what is said, what is unsaid, and then, there is the language of the body.

    If an INTJ--for that matter, any type--can learn all three, he can do well in what he wishes to implement.

    After all, one can't quite rule without having people who'd follow you, isn't it?

    And, as much as i agree with machiavelli, personally, my thought is that influence is far better for leading people than outright authority.

    which is what i mean: that type is really no excuse for a lack of character. The idea should be to recognise one's blind spots, and to work on shoring them up, while strengthening your strengths.

    for me, i deliberately throw myself into situations i am afraid of/uncomfortable with, just to see if i sink or swim. Yeps, the old style rip-off-that-bandaid-in-one-shot! school of thought.

    edit: oh, and i always, always hold the possibility that i may be wrong. because life is so wide, how can one person ever expect to know it all, to be right all the time? There must always exist other perspectives, other thoughts. The key is to give them all space, and not shut out what's different. No sense being a frog in a well, when there's a whole wide world out there.
    You gave me hyacinths first a year ago;
    They called me the hyacinth girl.
    Yet when we came back, late, from the Hyacinth garden,
    Your arms full, and your hair wet, I could not
    Speak, and my eyes failed, I was neither
    Living nor dead, and I knew nothing,
    Looking into the heart of light, the silence.

    --T.S Eliot, The Wasteland

  3. #103
    Senior Member sriv's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by elfinchilde View Post
    sriv, yes. the wisdom of a child is something that is underrated. It is perhaps only a child's eyes, and a child's voice, that will dare to point out the fact that the Emperor wears nothing.

    Tho, in modern times, is it a wise thing to do? At what cost, truth?

    But on to other, more interesting topics, shall we? Apollonian brought up some good ideas. (i shall have to take the issue of measurement another time. it's 230 am my time now, and i'm )



    I would think that good character is one which allows you to follow your own beliefs, yet not tread upon those of others: essentially, the balance of the self between the idealism of individuality, and the realistic demands of society.

    The strengths of an INTJ (if we're going into type): would be his/her quiet strength, the meticulousness of thought, and the ability to follow-through.

    I had mentioned once in some other thread, that INTJs seem to have trouble with initiation though? Because they think and consider so much, that sometimes, they may miss an opportunity that just arises? (not sure if this is true for all INTJs though.). In this specific sense: by learning at times to follow instinct--Ne, instead of Ni--an INTJ may seize the moment, upon which his natural strength of ordering his environment would see a project to due completion.

    Emotion tends to be the main weakness of the INTJ, i think. They are seldom aware how they come across to others, or the need for social niceties. This may actually hinder an INTJ's progress in the real world, especially if the INTJ is working in a high context society/job, where little subtle gestures matter.

    The message of an INTJ is always clear. Perhaps it is the style that can be worked upon?

    because in any communication, there are three levels: what is said, what is unsaid, and then, there is the language of the body.

    If an INTJ--for that matter, any type--can learn all three, he can do well in what he wishes to implement.

    After all, one can't quite rule without having people who'd follow you, isn't it?

    And, as much as i agree with machiavelli, personally, my thought is that influence is far better for leading people than outright authority.

    which is what i mean: that type is really no excuse for a lack of character. The idea should be to recognise one's blind spots, and to work on shoring them up, while strengthening your strengths.

    for me, i deliberately throw myself into situations i am afraid of/uncomfortable with, just to see if i sink or swim. Yeps, the old style rip-off-that-bandaid-in-one-shot! school of thought.

    edit: oh, and i always, always hold the possibility that i may be wrong. because life is so wide, how can one person ever expect to know it all, to be right all the time? There must always exist other perspectives, other thoughts. The key is to give them all space, and not shut out what's different. No sense being a frog in a well, when there's a whole wide world out there.
    The wise man makes more opportunities than he takes. Then it is only a matter of weighing the options. I am currently practicing courage in action, succeeding for the most part.

    The INTJ is better suited to the advisor of the figurehead leader that can sway the public. In the American government, Rhumsfeld and Powell are both INTJs.

    I too throw myself into unexplored waters to see how I do but not without prior preparation back home. It would be stupid to sacrafice something important when doing this.

    With style I have a big problem. Since the beginning, I never saw a need for style. It feels like a forced conformity that I have to deal with. I can put on a somewhat convincing act if I am in a manipulative mood (yes, I have moods). Can someone explain to me logically the need for social niceties?

  4. #104
    Don't Judge Me! Haphazard's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Blackmail! View Post
    (Are we seeing the legendary ENFP/INTJ attraction working here? You'll eventually figure it out during the next episode of our long awaited MBTI soap opera...)



    Either way, for more sciency goodness:

    Fun With Sulfur Hexaflouride

  5. #105
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    Default thoughts on interactions with INTJs

    I have known 2 and thought very highly of them both. We had a mutual respect for each other's competencies and need for privacy, which for the INTJs seemed paramount to having a relationship with them at all

    I say that with affection. I can recall seeing over and over again the tremendous character, self assurance and capacity for critical thinking demonstrated in both of these individuals, very impressive. I also recall loneritis (which I highly appove of, btw) but which seemed off-putting to many others. So regarding how others perceive you, which is essential to the quality and opportunity to even have a relationship, being aware of how your youness predictably effects others is not a bad place to start. Perhaps INTJs (and ENTJs) can be a bit intimidating? Maybe unforgiving at times, too. I remember the disapproval so forcefully communicated with a slight shudder, but I did shoulder it.

    When exploring positive and open interactions with others, a question I always ask is "is this what I really want?". I know for me, as an INFP, this is very risky business indeed and something I would rather facilitate in others than offer myself. As for the INTJs I have known, it struck me that they had very high standards and might minimize the power of compromise in favor of remaining alone. And to this I say "Know Thyself". If this is your path, ride it, and understand what naturaly flows from it. Being highly selective in your relationships can result in the deepest kind of connections with others - anything superficial is not allowed. Sounds okay to me And if this has been your "path" and you are tired of it, reach out. Find common ground. Relax. Look for ways to respect other types. Respect is VERY important to an INTJ, but your criteria may need to be expanded a bit to allow for individual differences. Use your imagination and empathy. Why not?

  6. #106
    resonance entropie's Avatar
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    I am glad you hit the right planet

    Could have been worse:

    [YOUTUBE="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Rkp-MI5hxVw"]In a mirror, darkly[/YOUTUBE]
    [URL]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tEBvftJUwDw&t=0s[/URL]

  7. #107
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    Quote Originally Posted by Banana View Post
    I have known 2 and thought very highly of them both. We had a mutual respect for each other's competencies and need for privacy, which for the INTJs seemed paramount to having a relationship with them at all
    How insightful of you. My best friends and family all live in other states. I see them once or twice a year, for intervals of one to two weeks. That is all I need. It's about finding the right balance.

    Quote Originally Posted by entropie View Post
    I am glad you hit the right planet

    Could have been worse:

  8. #108
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    Default wait...

    I hit the right planet???

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