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Thread: INTJ breakdown

  1. #41
    mrs disregard's Avatar
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    Lurk moar and you shall receive.

  2. #42
    a white iris elfinchilde's Avatar
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    eh. hang on a moment. Haphazard, with reference to your OP: you were meaning that personally, isn't it?

    As in, it is you who are currently under stress, and feeling like you're breaking down. Hence you wish to know what the 'classic' reaction of a typical INTJ is like under stress, so you can see if that is like you?

    ie, it's not wanting to find out "how do i irritate an INTJ to explosion", but wanting to know the reaction of an INTJ under stress, for purposes of self-identification?
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  3. #43
    Don't Judge Me! Haphazard's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by elfinchilde View Post
    eh. hang on a moment. Haphazard, with reference to your OP: you were meaning that personally, isn't it?

    As in, it is you who are currently under stress, and feeling like you're breaking down. Hence you wish to know what the 'classic' reaction of a typical INTJ is like under stress, so you can see if that is like you?

    ie, it's not wanting to find out "how do i irritate an INTJ to explosion", but wanting to know the reaction of an INTJ under stress, for purposes of self-identification?
    Not for purposes of self-identification. I may be under stress, but I want to know what to look out for for myself.

    Self-help, I suppose.

    A bit of searching definitely has me thinking that I'm at least dominant Ni, or dominant Ne, but either way definitely not INTP. While I'm waiting for someone I know to discuss and finalize the idea of it, I'm trying to help myself, or at least keep myself under control.

  4. #44
    Tenured roisterer SolitaryWalker's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Haphazard View Post
    If values are determined by Fi, would that mean that for INTPs and ISTPs, values will inherently be their downfall?

    That can't be right...
    Everyone has values. Feeling, however is best at making conscious assessment of values and recognizing them.

    ITPs tend to have classical Thinking values.

    Competence.
    Autonomy (Because of their intense introversion, as well as the need for competence prompts them to chart their own course)
    Clarity of thought
    Truth to self (As Introverted Judgers, they must earnestly believe that they are true to their principles. Much contrasted with the Extroverted Judgers who would be much more easily satisfied with merely meeting an external standard.)

    In response to Kiddo the following should be noted.

    The INTP is more individualistic than an INFP because of the competence factor. (Both are highly individualistic because of the intense introversion)

    The INFP is pulled towards collectivism because of the need for emotional affirmation, whilst the INTP is not.

    The INTP is more individualistic than the INTJ because the INTP's introversion is higher. Judging functions are more focused than perceiving functions. Accordingly, we adduce that Introverted Thinking is more internally focused than Introverted Intuition. Secondly, because the INTP has a higher need for competence as the Thinking need is stronger.

    The INTP is more individualistic than the ENFP because his introversion is higher. As well as the need for competence.

    Types listed from most individualistic to least

    1)INTP
    2)INFP
    3)INTJ(ahead of the INFJ because of the factor of pure introversion)
    4)INFJ

    Here we notice that the salient factor for individualism is introversion, followed by the need for competence represented by Thinking.

    5)ENTP
    6)ENFP
    7)ENTJ
    8)ENFJ


    Here we confront a rather odd issue. The ISTP is clearly more introverted than the four types listed above, but why is it less individualistic? The answer to this question because in order for one to be a true individualist, one must have an individualistic view of the world. The ISTP, lacking intuition is forced to rely on concrete views of the world passed down to him by others. Intuition is necessary for one to be an independent thinker.

    9)ISTP
    10)ISFP
    11)ISTJ
    12)ISFJ
    13)ESTP
    14)ESFP
    15)ESTJ
    16)ESFJ

    ************Most important note of the post****************

    Under no circumstances do not apply this model to persons you observe. This merely sheds light on our unconscious tendencies towards individualism, but no further. This was an inquiry into type and not personality.

    For a more specific notion of type review section I of http://www.typologycentral.com/forum...-typology.html.


    ---------------------------------------------------------------

    Re:Article on the INTJ

    The fundamental error of the article was associating such collectivistic behaviors with Fi, and incidentally insinuating that values are strictly a Feeling property. We all have values as values are merely a result of notions that we approve of or disapprove of. This requires a Feeling based judgment. Not all of us are good at such judgments, yet because all of us inevitably experience feelings, all of us therefore have values. As my earlier ITP example has hopefully evinced.


    Fi does not represent its values in concrete terms, especially not to be true to principles through concrete actions.

    The nature of Extroverted Judgment is symbolic. Te and Fe are most concerned with expressing principles in action or symbols ostensible to all. Like in the present case 'drowning with the ship'.

    An Introverted Feeler, would seek to stay true to his inner principles, but would have little interest in expressing such a mindset. The more neurotic, the more internally focused he will be. The more internally focused, the less expressive.

    The INTJ described above is very expressive of his principles, and as an extroverted judger he seeks to apply his principles to the external world. To every little bit of it. The introverted judger, in this case Fi, would have little interest in applying his principles to the internal world. They need not be acted out, they only need to be felt with sincerity. What in this article we find is a case of malfunctioning Extroverted Judgment and not Introverted. The only ostensible way Introverted Feeling is involved in such a case is that it blindly supports the ways of Extroverted Judgment. This is the Hegelian master-slave dialect. Or in plain English, our less developed functions are enslaved by the more developed. The simplest example of this is the Ni of the INJ distorting sensations and memories to better befit a hunch. Fi could be distorted in a very similar fashion by the prevailing faculties, in the case of the INTJ it is both Ni and Te. In this case it is Te. What we have here is the INTJ experiencing supporting Feelings of their Te decision to show punctiliously show off their principles to the external world.



    --------------------------------------------------------------

    Re Kiddo's comment concerning collectivism of Ti and Fe.

    The Jungian definition of Introversion is the attitude that defines the world by its inner agenda.

    Extroversion is the attitude that defines the inner life by the external agenda.

    We'd do well to associate Introversion with individualism and Extroversion with collectivism.

    This leaves us with good reasons to deem Fe radically collectivist, not only on grounds of Extroversion but also because of the emotional dependency on others. Yet, I see no reason at all to deem Ti collectivist. Ti is first and foremost intensely introverted and of all functions relies on emotional support of others the least. You'd do well to argue that some types with Fe and Ti tend to be collectivist, as EFJs, especially ESFJs are a striking case in point. Yet this is the case solely by virtue of the dominant Extroverted Feeling factor. Introverted Thinking detracts from such an intense collectivistic mindset. The type, however, remains one of radical collectivism because the voice of Introverted Thinking is repressed by the dominant Extroverted Feeling. This shows that primacy of Fe over Ti is necessary for the collectivist attitude to ensue.
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  5. #45
    Don't Judge Me! Haphazard's Avatar
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    Blue, that was a very insightful post, but that was meant as sarcasm.

  6. #46
    On a mission Usehername's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Haphazard View Post
    Do all discussions here break down into exchanges personal rivalries and animosity?

    Excuse me, I'm kind of new here. I'm still trying to figure out this place.
    No... this place is really quite relaxing and amicable. You're just getting a statistically unlikely event (although we have had things like this in the past).
    *You don't have a soul. You are a Soul. You have a body.
    *Faith is the art of holding on to things your reason once accepted, despite your changing moods.
    C.S. Lewis

  7. #47
    Furry Critter with Claws Kiddo's Avatar
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    I have to admit BW, that post does make me rethink the issue.
    Quote Originally Posted by Silently Honest View Post
    OMNi: Wisdom at the cost of Sanity.

  8. #48
    Occasional Member Evan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by BlueWing View Post
    The INTP is more individualistic than an INFP because of the competence factor. (Both are highly individualistic because of the intense introversion)

    The INFP is pulled towards collectivism because of the need for emotional affirmation, whilst the INTP is not.
    the principles that Fi holds differ much more among people than those of Ti. in that sense, Fi is more individualistic...

    two INFPs will disagree much more often than two INTPs will.

  9. #49
    Magical Firelie's Avatar
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    I cracked once. It was after 35+ hours of no sleep, thinking I was having heart trouble/breathing problems, and my roommates were gone for the weekend so I was all alone.

    It was nothing spectacular, I just walked around the house bursting into tears for no reason...which is not something I've ever done. It was strange and disturbing.

  10. #50
    `~~Philosoflying~~` SillySapienne's Avatar
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    Mr. Wing, your "Individua-list" is comical, at best.

    I wonder what it would be like to live in a world where every multidimensional concept happened to be funneled, processed and regurgitated so, well, simplistically.

    Let me guess, you have a slightly expressed N?
    `
    'Cause you can't handle me...

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    "That that is, is. That that is not, is not. Is that it? It is."

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