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Thread: ENTP Ti Rant

  1. #1
    Member stormyapril's Avatar
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    Wink ENTP Ti Rant

    So this is becoming a pattern, but I need to Ti vent. Even though I only am on here once every 2-6 months - the predictability is missing but the pattern is there. This is the one safe place I will actually call the world out (ok more like 75% of users w/ Ti in the 3rd/4th or worse - no position) - please tell me there is an INTP who has actually calculated this out because I have not had time to do the math because my Fi just turned into Ti and is derailing my thought process


    Yes - As a Ti user we really do remember most details about our life. What happened when, who said what in a conversation, why we did the crazy shit we did, what we were thinking/feeling at the time... The amount of info is insane (I know) but when you make a statement that you don't remember, you are calling yourself stupid to us - see next reason!

    Yes - We expect that most human beings have a clue and can remember details about their life - What did you eat last night? What did you do yesterday? Why did you decide that the plan of action was the right one? (Getting harder, I know) What are the key DETAILS as to why one plan works better over the other and major issues? Did you just go along with an idea because you like the person or did you do it because you actually THOUGHT about the best approach and have the ability to focus on important details and weed out useful, but not major ones?

    Yes - It matters when you don't give credit to the right person - and if you only have a 6 month memory instead of a memory of what happened over a lifetime you will probably be picking the wrong person or leaving someone out - Come on, don't you Te/Fi users journal? If so try writing stuff down that you know you will forget...

    Yes - If we scare you because we really do know the details, can pull off success out of insanely complex chaos, and seem to not be paying attention all at the same time (but are) - get over it and just trust us - the person in the room who seems in charge probably isn't, but is the lowest common Te denominator who ends up in control because they are slow and have to keep repeating themselves so that they 1) feel in control (and I do mean feel, the rarely KNOW anything) 2) Keep group Fi under control via constant "messaging" of the plan 3) work really well w/ Se doms who are always in the moment and who are also the focus of this rant
    - quick Se test - if you look at that smiley jumping out of the cake and wondered what it would be like to have a hot girl or guy jump out of your cake and what's the big deal about objectifying anyone any way because it feels good - you have Se and wouldn't understand this post - DONT REPLY

    Yes - It may look ADD, but have you ever considered that if it REALLY DOES ONLY TAKE US 1/8 OF THE TIME AS YOU to learn something that WE PROBABLY DO SEEM TO BE MOVING FASTER THAN YOU? I am just glad I figured this one out before I died - now I know why having to explain myself repeatedly pisses me off and also why now I feel perfectly alright stopping after the 3rd try - you probably wouldn't understand anyway
    - That's a Ti user speeding away as you are still stuck scratching your head wondering what we were talking about in the first place.

    Yes - It drives us crazy when groups of people actually think that meetings can be productive. RARELY does a meeting result in anything that actually moves anything forward in life - this is true at work and at home.
    - See it is even depicted here - meetings are only useful and good if you can reach a decision or sing kum ba yah and help everyone feel better about themselves/each other - If not all you did was sit aroung and stare at each other and not make headway - There is still WORK to be done outside of the room. This is where I get really annoyed at heavy Te users - TELLING people what to do/taliking about what to do/discussing the "notion" about what "we" are going to do (see above about lowest common denominator and "looking" in charge) is NOT THE SAME as GETTING IT DONE. If you see someone actually creating and have actual work product (here is where Si users cross over into the Ti world) they are forwarding "the cause" not the folks who "thought" or "messaged" the work to be done. I actually think that this is turning into a sickness in our society but will reserve that one long huge social rant for a book.

    So, truth is, I know this is probably not just about Ti and that there is some element of just being fairly intelligent and having a lot of mental capacity, but I see that these break points drive me crazy consistently. Probably because other types seem to have a lack of the strong Ti capacities in fairly predictable ways.



    Thanks for reading this far if you have - don't really need a reply, but if you have any similar frustrations, feel free to dump here! I know I like to (I feel better already) Fi usually just pisses me off and doing this helps me get back to my happy world of schematics for everything (yes even relationships) and hard numbers and facts.

    One last thing - Orobas - I wub you and if any of these generalizations seems unfair, I know you will tell me...

  2. #2
    Habitual Fi LineStepper JocktheMotie's Avatar
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    I was about to ask how you came to have such a nonsensical understanding of type until I read this:
    Quote Originally Posted by stormyapril View Post
    One last thing - Orobas - I wub you and if any of these generalizations seems unfair, I know you will tell me...
    And then it all made sense.



  3. #3
    Member stormyapril's Avatar
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    As I didn't need any input, your comments about how wrong my understanding of the typology world is, is entertaining.

    The rant is about the behavior - calling it a different name is interesting but beside the point - we can both agree to call a piece of land surrounded by water an island or we can call it paradise, but it functionally is the same thing despite our term. Please enlighten me in your MBTI Jedi ways if you so desire

    I also find it fascinating that you don't advertise your own type. If you have discerned an absolute truth in this personality description system we call MBTI what is yours as it should be apparent if you are so adamant you know THE WAY that it works. Great teachers inherently love, own, and believe what they proffer. I am sure heckler is in there somewhere?

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    Senior Member captain curmudgeon's Avatar
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    Few things are scarier than someone who is convinced not only that their nonsensical drivel makes sense, but that it is right and other things are wrong. One of those things is when these people proceed to attempt to initiate debate with others.

  5. #5
    royal member Rasofy's Avatar
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    This is raw Ne. Ti is missing.
    -----------------

    A man builds. A parasite asks 'Where is my share?'
    A man creates. A parasite says, 'What will the neighbors think?'
    A man invents. A parasite says, 'Watch out, or you might tread on the toes of God... '


    -----------------

  6. #6
    Member stormyapril's Avatar
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    Still waiting to be enlightened and now corrected but always entertained

    I am now fascinated by how many will get on here and tell me how "wrong" it is...

    A rant is inherently personal. That said, I am obviously hitting a sore spot w/ the Ti doms of the world. You guys don't have a clue when it comes to people systems - dont ya know that is where we ENTP live and play??? Surely this is not new to you? We use Ti to memorize people and predict their patterns (frankly these very responses drive home the point as INTP usually can't stand to be told how anything, people or otherwise, might be perceived differently than what they know to be THE ULTIMATE TRUTH).

    I LOVE you guys - don't take it personally - your capability for knowledge will always power the world and be the source for all major engineering creations (Ti to Si reality) but you are not the greatest people system engineers. That is what this rant is about... Human inconsistency that can be (and is) measured and known...

  7. #7
    Senior Member sculpting's Avatar
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    our cozy, little home is full of love, eh? There are some very wonderful people here.

    Quote Originally Posted by stormyapril View Post
    So this is becoming a pattern, but I need to Ti vent. Even though I only am on here once every 2-6 months - the predictability is missing but the pattern is there. This is the one safe place I will actually call the world out (ok more like 75% of users w/ Ti in the 3rd/4th or worse - no position) - please tell me there is an INTP who has actually calculated this out because I have not had time to do the math because my Fi just turned into Ti and is derailing my thought process...
    Q about Ti rants-Fi rants go smething like "people are SOOOO mean", do Ti rants go "People are SOOOO stupid"? Basically an inability to even understand how others could be so possibly stupid? *stares with big. blank, hopeless, drooling puppy dog eyes*

    This seems a lazy default Ti judgment-Just as I would apply my worldview upon you, come up with no good answer as I cannot fathom your underlying Ti, thus apply a lazy Fi judgment of "mean"-you in turn would judge me as stupid as I do not share your Ti, thus my actions and thoughts make no sense? (Sorry I am doing the damned Te telling thing, huh? Pretend it is a Q.)

    Quote Originally Posted by stormyapril View Post
    Yes - As a Ti user we really do remember most details about our life. What happened when, who said what in a conversation, why we did the crazy shit we did, what we were thinking/feeling at the time... The amount of info is insane (I know) but when you make a statement that you don't remember, you are calling yourself stupid to us - see next reason!

    Yes - We expect that most human beings have a clue and can remember details about their life - What did you eat last night? What did you do yesterday? Why did you decide that the plan of action was the right one? (Getting harder, I know) What are the key DETAILS as to why one plan works better over the other and major issues? Did you just go along with an idea because you like the person or did you do it because you actually THOUGHT about the best approach and have the ability to focus on important details and weed out useful, but not major ones?...
    I dont recall what I ate yesterday. This is starting to come out in planning with the Ti-less group-none of us recall the details...it is like a weird blurry swimming dance where the end point is known, but the rest will get worked out step by step. The jury is still out on how effective this will be...I have seen some INTJs note that they know what needs to be done and to hell with stuff they know they will have to resolve a bit further down the line-not sure about ubiquity on that point though. I would be really interested in the ENTJ perspective on this though...I have seen the STJs in action where Si can be interesting, and a lot of INTJs, but ENTJs my be another matter.

    Interesting some of the INFJs have described how they recall people details-like post it notes with details on them. The more details they accumulate, the better picture they have of the person. Kinda like the notes are Fe focused Ti details...then all compiled with Ni. I have also had convos with a nice TiSi over at INTJf-she notes this very Ti detailed path of interactions with another person-all the details of what they like and why-all very specific. Additionally some ENTPs have noted that they way you know an entp is really into you is if he recalls the very specific things you like and gets those as gifts for you. LOL, I think it also can be seen in NTP sex-where they never stop watching you, noting all the details, utterly analytical..


    Quote Originally Posted by stormyapril View Post
    Yes - It matters when you don't give credit to the right person - and if you only have a 6 month memory instead of a memory of what happened over a lifetime you will probably be picking the wrong person or leaving someone out - Come on, don't you Te/Fi users journal? If so try writing stuff down that you know you will forget...:...
    Can you give an example-how would you choose to give credit to another? groups vs individuals? You are adorably inflammatory.

    Quote Originally Posted by stormyapril View Post
    Yes - If we scare you because we really do know the details, can pull off success out of insanely complex chaos, and seem to not be paying attention all at the same time (but are) - get over it and just trust us - the person in the room who seems in charge probably isn't, but is the lowest common Te denominator who ends up in control because they are slow and have to keep repeating themselves so that they 1) feel in control (and I do mean feel, the rarely KNOW anything) 2) Keep group Fi under control via constant "messaging" of the plan 3) work really well w/ Se doms who are always in the moment and who are also the focus of this rant
    I call this Te social dynamics. Hmm, better to address each item indiviaully.

    Quote Originally Posted by stormyapril View Post

    - quick Se test - if you look at that smiley jumping out of the cake and wondered what it would be like to have a hot girl or guy jump out of your cake and what's the big deal about objectifying anyone any way because it feels good - you have Se and wouldn't understand this post - DONT REPLY...
    Okay, you made my Fi cringe!!! Dont be a type hater!!! There are some amazingly wonderful Se and Si folks and they can help me see all types of things that I am blind to-Halla may be the most awesome of all-he recently made a very Ti post about people with messed up people skills which was really helpful for the average enfp to read. however as of late-I'd say some of the INTJs would totally dig your cakegirl.

    Quote Originally Posted by stormyapril View Post
    Yes - It drives us crazy when groups of people actually think that meetings can be productive. RARELY does a meeting result in anything that actually moves anything forward in life - this is true at work and at home.

    - See it is even depicted here - meetings are only useful and good if you can reach a decision or sing kum ba yah and help everyone feel better about themselves/each other - If not all you did was sit aroung and stare at each other and not make headway - There is still WORK to be done outside of the room. This is where I get really annoyed at heavy Te users - TELLING people what to do/taliking about what to do/discussing the "notion" about what "we" are going to do (see above about lowest common denominator and "looking" in charge) is NOT THE SAME as GETTING IT DONE. If you see someone actually creating and have actual work product (here is where Si users cross over into the Ti world) they are forwarding "the cause" not the folks who "thought" or "messaged" the work to be done. I actually think that this is turning into a sickness in our society but will reserve that one long huge social rant for a book....
    Hmmm-I'd argue TeSe is the driving engineering force in the world-NTJs for the win. What is the product of Ti? How does the Ti concept escape to become-not reality, that's Se-but a consistent part of our shared, set of usable knowledge-Si? How does the Ti idea escape the consensus/sometimes group think that can be the dark side of Fe? Flipping that around-Te seeks objective metrics-once we all find we have agreed on those metrics together (in the dreaded meetings ), then the plan is "GOOD". But if Fe can be guilty of groupthink-what is Te guilty of-groupfeel/group values/group....what?

    Quote Originally Posted by stormyapril View Post
    So, truth is, I know this is probably not just about Ti and that there is some element of just being fairly intelligent and having a lot of mental capacity, but I see that these break points drive me crazy consistently. Probably because other types seem to have a lack of the strong Ti capacities in fairly predictable ways.....
    This is the curse of Ne I think-the patterns just pop and they grate. I handle it by trying to see beyound my own Fi and build it extra layers..ie-"I value authenticity, however my INFJ friends will be upset and stressed if I am overly authentic in my emotions. I value caring for them-thus my care can outweigh my need for authenticity, and I can identify alternate ways to communicate that do not induce stress in them." ...[/QUOTE]


    <<<This is such an entp icon...you guys are so awesome and funny.


    Quote Originally Posted by stormyapril View Post
    One last thing - Orobas - I wub you and if any of these generalizations seems unfair, I know you will tell me...
    But of course....I care too much for you to not argue and debate. What better fun can there be?

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    Member stormyapril's Avatar
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    Yes - very interesting collection here

    Yes to the Ti rant - looking for consistency and logic and "stupid" is a default thought to not finding anything. Ability to remember detail and why the detail matters seems to be the biggest trigger in all of this.

  9. #9
    Happy Dancer uumlau's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by stormyapril View Post
    Yes - As a Ti user we really do remember most details about our life. What happened when, who said what in a conversation, why we did the crazy shit we did, what we were thinking/feeling at the time... The amount of info is insane (I know) but when you make a statement that you don't remember, you are calling yourself stupid to us - see next reason!
    I'm mildly skeptical how much this is Ti or any particular function per se, though perhaps if one is good at memorizing specific events, there is a tendency to think of things in a Ti (or even Si) way?

    In general, I think different kinds of people are good at memorizing different kinds of things. I have a Ph.D. in physics, but no, I don't remember conversations verbatim. I remember arguments and points and ideas. If someone makes a bad argument - by which I mean poorly formed or otherwise incoherent, not merely an argument with which I happen to disagree - it is often difficult for me to remember what that argument even was, because it didn't fit in my "argument box", so to speak, and I don't have a "random stuff people say" box. Both good and bad arguments fit in my "argument box". Weird arguments don't.

    What's interesting here is while I don't have a "random stuff that people say box", I do appear to have a "random music I've heard box." Even as I totally forget exact words no matter how hard I try to remember them, I find that music to which I hardly paid attention is playing in my head from memory. I've several dozen salsa songs in my head, even though I don't know the words. Now, don't ask me to sing or hum any of this: even if my voice were a better instrument, I can only cover the main tune, or a particular part of the tune. And even if I can't sing/hum the entire thing, when dancing I am able to time a move (a dip, for example) exactly to where it fits the music. There's a huge realm of information about the music still in my head, that simply doesn't translate. It's worse than "a picture is worth a thousand words", because the words aren't there.

    It's been often noted that those who are good at math appear to be good at music, and vice versa. It's not 100%, of course, and I'm too lazy to go looking up studies, but it's worthwhile as an observation that suggests a possibility to me. Namely, music and math and physics all "feel the same" to me, in my head, as if I'm using the same approach, the same inner cognitive skill set (I'm not invoking Jungian functions for the moment). That skill set is essentially very good at thinking of things in terms of "functions" (not merely functionality), of transforming X into Y, of mapping what is over here in this realm to what is over there in that realm.

    This differs from what you describe as your cognitive approach, with your extremely good memory for words and events. The specific words and events, to me, are rather transitory. It's the functions that matter. Music has patterns, but they're very functional, they evolve over time. Particular chord progressions move the music towards a conclusion, others suggest that one is moving away from a resolution. Random chords, random melodies, these "sound bad" for no reason anyone can put a word to. I would say they "sound bad" because there is no function to be perceived behind them.

    I've mentioned this analogy before, but it's like signal processing using Fourier transforms. Fourier transforms are necessarily "lossy", but in spite of that they preserve the essence of the information (the sound, the music, the picture, the streaming movie). Sticking with sound/music, for now, the Fourier transform takes a raw sound wave with all sorts of peaks and valleys, and parses out the frequencies in that wave along with the relative strength of each. This ends up being useful because this new version of the wave maps exactly to what humans hear. When a piano plays a chord, we don't hear it as a complex waveform, we hear it as individual notes resonating with each other.

    So, in a way, my "music box" (pun intended) is very good at storing this kind of information, doing an implicit Fourier transform. Fourier transforms, however, are very bad at handling discrete information. Blobby fuzzy information fits just fine, but raw data, precise words don't.

    Again, I'm not sure how much this maps to functions or type. I generally associate it with Ni (functional) vs Si (concrete) perspectives, but that's just a guess. Perhaps there are combinations, e.g., NiFi being very good at handling fuzzy-blobby-function information, and TiSi being very good at handling discrete data points. FiSi would perhaps be a rather precise fuzziness, as oxymoronic as it sounds, and TiNi would be a fuzzy preciseness? That's assuming this maps at all, of course.
    An argument is two people sharing their ignorance.

    A discussion is two people sharing their understanding, even when they disagree.

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