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[INTJ] INTJs, how do you express your likes and dislikes?

Sizzling Berry

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INTJs, I have a few questions:

1) How do you express your likes and dislikes connected with people and how they behave?

2) Should I believe you when you say something is neutral to you? Especially if your behavior says otherwise?

3) I noticed that in any relationship like friendship for example you need to feel welcomed (that your presence and advice are appreciated and wanted). When you use the phrase "I don't mind" is it closer to "I don't care" or to "I like it".

Thanks in advance!!!
 

Jack427

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When I dislike someone, they hear it in my voice, or possibly see it in my eyes. Or I call them a dumbass.

Not many things are neutral to an INTJ, or any human being actually.

The last one depends on the person, and the kind of relationship.
 

Sizzling Berry

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When I dislike someone, they hear it in my voice, or possibly see it in my eyes. Or I call them a dumbass.

Not many things are neutral to an INTJ, or any human being actually.

The last one depends on the person, and the kind of relationship.

Thanks [MENTION=14530]Jack427[/MENTION] !

Do people read your liking and disliking correctly? When would you be less verbal and more non-verbal?
 

Tiger Owl

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1) How do you express your likes and dislikes connected with people and how they behave?
Almost always in a very honest manner, not always in a compassionate manner (depending on the emotional reserve of the person in question).

2) Should I believe you when you say something is neutral to you? Especially if your behavior says otherwise?
Depends on what the behavior is telling you. If the behavior is negative yet you hear neutral it may mean still processing or I don't want to make a big deal out of it right now because it is important to you or i am not in the mood for a debate or argument. If the behavior is positive and you hear neutral perhaps whatever it is enjoyable yet not fully supported based on findings of analysis.

3) I noticed that in any relationship like friendship for example you need to feel welcomed (that your presence and advice are appreciated and wanted). When you use the phrase "I don't mind" is it closer to "I don't care" or to "I like it".
Could be either one. I don't mind does not mean I don't like it because if it did not they would likely tell you.
 

Sizzling Berry

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[MENTION=14458]earthtrekker1775[/MENTION] thanks. Can I ask you about the analysis from the point 2.

Behavior positive, you enjoy it but analysis doesn't fully support it?

What other factors were taken into account (provided that the behavior that brought the response doesn't endanger your health)?
 

Tiger Owl

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Sure, I will use a recent example in my life.

A couple weeks ago I was invited to go out for some drinks with a number of my classmates. I agreed because I did not have an exam the next day and I had not socialized in a while. I met them at the bar on a Friday night and it was packed with people. Well, I had an okay time but could have been equally content at home. i had a few really good conversations and a few pints of delicious beer. My behavior was positive, I mingled with my classmates and got to know a couple of them better than i had previously. All good things but my outward expression was pretty neutral, one-on-one conversations near the wall or an exit and a beer in my hand while others were really getting into the party spirit.
The analysis stage went something like this (and each point would be checked, cross referenced, hypothesized, weighed against my instinctual response and graduated by importance based on likeliness, severity, risk, benefit, etc.) This list will not be in order, just as they come to me.

PROS:
evening with friends
networking
beer
get off typeC
eye candy
research opportunity
practice typing others
get outside
de-stress after a big exam
chance for bar fight
wife can watch her shows without my comments

CONS:
Dont' like crowds
lose sleep
lose time with wife/kids
lose time studying
parking issues downtown
crowded bar
expensive drinks
superficial people and talk
strangers
if i drink I cant be armed,
if armed i cant drink
talk too long to someone and people may gossip
dont talk to someone and they may be offended
driving sober
lots of police out
bar only had main entrance and side door
if there was fight there could be injury
legal trouble, school trouble


and on and on.

That is a short list for a small scenario. Do that hundreds of times per day and add in how each one of the above makes you feel and wether or not there is a gut reaction to any of the points. Then act on the result. I can be spontaneous but that just means there is a shorter checklist with more rapid analysis.
In the end, I went, I enjoyed myself though with slight reservations - even though the data were not all supportive of going.
I hope that helps.
 

AphroditeGoneAwry

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Sure, I will use a recent example in my life.

A couple weeks ago I was invited to go out for some drinks with a number of my classmates. I agreed because I did not have an exam the next day and I had not socialized in a while. I met them at the bar on a Friday night and it was packed with people. Well, I had an okay time but could have been equally content at home. i had a few really good conversations and a few pints of delicious beer. My behavior was positive, I mingled with my classmates and got to know a couple of them better than i had previously. All good things but my outward expression was pretty neutral, one-on-one conversations near the wall or an exit and a beer in my hand while others were really getting into the party spirit.
The analysis stage went something like this (and each point would be checked, cross referenced, hypothesized, weighed against my instinctual response and graduated by importance based on likeliness, severity, risk, benefit, etc.) This list will not be in order, just as they come to me.

PROS:
evening with friends
networking
beer
get off typeC
eye candy
research opportunity
practice typing others
get outside
de-stress after a big exam
chance for bar fight
wife can watch her shows without my comments

CONS:
Dont' like crowds
lose sleep
lose time with wife/kids
lose time studying
parking issues downtown
crowded bar
expensive drinks
superficial people and talk
strangers
if i drink I cant be armed,
if armed i cant drink
talk too long to someone and people may gossip
dont talk to someone and they may be offended
driving sober
lots of police out
bar only had main entrance and side door
if there was fight there could be injury
legal trouble, school trouble


and on and on.

That is a short list for a small scenario. Do that hundreds of times per day and add in how each one of the above makes you feel and wether or not there is a gut reaction to any of the points. Then act on the result. I can be spontaneous but that just means there is a shorter checklist with more rapid analysis.
In the end, I went, I enjoyed myself though with slight reservations - even though the data were not all supportive of going.
I hope that helps.


lol. I always think about the exit strategy too.


How many doors should there be?
 

Tiger Owl

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lol. I always think about the exit strategy too.


How many doors should there be?

Enough to have options, few enough to not have too many to watch. Depends entirely on the layout of the room/building, how many people are in there, how many are likely to have similar protective instincts vs. those that will stampede like wildebeest when things get hairy. Lots of factors. Sometimes all you can do is make sure you will be able to see trouble when it starts so you have the lowest reaction time in the room.
 

Coriolis

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1) How do you express your likes and dislikes connected with people and how they behave?
If I know someone well, I will tell them directly when I am bothered by their behavior, or at least I will ask for a change. If I don't know someone well, I will tell them directly, only if I am directly impacted by it, for instance a coworker who does something that makes it difficult for me to do my job. For the rest of the world, if I don't like how someone behaves, I just avoid and ignore them. It is not my job to correct people, or even to expect they satisfy my standards. In all cases, I try to model the behavior I would prefer.

2) Should I believe you when you say something is neutral to you? Especially if your behavior says otherwise?
You should always believe first, foremost, and almost exclusively the words out of my mouth (or writing from my hands). The idea that you would give any precedence to bodily reactions that I might not always control, over the deliberate, reasoned response I formulate is almost insulting, and likely to lead to misunderstanding. I have been told my nonverbal cues are few and hard to read, which suits me fine. I will tell you what I want you to know, and if I err in assessing or expressing my own wants, I willingly abide by the consequences. Many small things really are neutral to me: what to have for dinner, whether to see movie X or Y. If I have a real preference, I will say so. I may also be neutral on much bigger issues when I have not considered them sufficiently to have a sound opinion. I will explain this if asked.

3) I noticed that in any relationship like friendship for example you need to feel welcomed (that your presence and advice are appreciated and wanted). When you use the phrase "I don't mind" is it closer to "I don't care" or to "I like it". "I don't mind" doesn't mean I like it. It is closer to, "it wouldn't bother me". You are right about needing to feel wanted in relationships. I take a very live-and-let-live approach to personal interactions, and see no need to impose myself where I am not wanted, or to hang around people whose company is not enjoyable to me. A relationship should satisfy all involved.
 

highlander

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INTJs, I have a few questions:

1) How do you express your likes and dislikes connected with people and how they behave?

Probably If I know them well, I just flat out tell them. If I don't know them and they do stuff I don't like, I would avoid them and if it's stuff I like, I'll endeavor to get to know them better.

2) Should I believe you when you say something is neutral to you? Especially if your behavior says otherwise?

When I say something, you can be pretty much assured that it's what I think because I'm just flat out honest, even if as I've gotten older, that honesty is tempered by a much greater deal of diplomacy. I get irritated when I tell people things and they think that I mean something else or don't believe me. I also appreciate directness by other people - bluntness even. Be honest. Be real. Don't embarrass me in front of other people though.

3) I noticed that in any relationship like friendship for example you need to feel welcomed (that your presence and advice are appreciated and wanted). When you use the phrase "I don't mind" is it closer to "I don't care" or to "I like it".

It could be either actually. The essence of your questions appear to be directed towards understanding what the INTJ thinks, because they can impassive or vague. They tend not to communicate enough and people don't know what's going on in there. Best thing is just to ask and pin them down - demand an answer. So, if they say "I don't mind", then just ask them do you mean "I like it" or "I don't care" or "I don't want to, but will go along with you". Maybe they are ambivalent or just don't know and haven't made up their mind yet. Just ask leading questions and they will give you an answer. You might help them to think through things, which they will probably appreciate.
 

Jack427

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Thanks [MENTION=14530]Jack427[/MENTION] !

Do people read your liking and disliking correctly? When would you be less verbal and more non-verbal?

I don't know if they read my liking or disliking correctly. Whenever someone says something so stupid, or so ignorant I just stare at them with anger.
 

Sizzling Berry

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[MENTION=9811]Coriolis[/MENTION] and [MENTION=8936]highlander[/MENTION] thanks so much. And no insult was intended in point 2. I was not thinking that INTJs would willingly lie, but rather not know their heart or mind or not want to speak about something. Does it ever happen?

[MENTION=9811]Coriolis[/MENTION], if you like the behavior would you initiate it or wait for the other person to do it?

[MENTION=8936]highlander[/MENTION]: you are right with point 3 - better understanding is my goal in this :). Sometimes I asked 5 times (is it ok with you? do you like it?). What you had in mind when you mentioned leading questions? Could you give me an example.
 

Coriolis

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[MENTION=9811]Coriolis[/MENTION] and [MENTION=8936]highlander[/MENTION] thanks so much. And no insult was intended in point 2. I was not thinking that INTJs would willingly lie, but rather not know their heart or mind or not want to speak about something. Does it ever happen?
The insult is not in considering us liars, but rather on devaluing our intentional responses vs. something likely unconscious and involuntary. If I truly don't know my heart and mind (yet), it is not for you to probe around and draw your own conclusions. People who try to assess my emotional state are usually wrong. If I am undecided, I will say so. If I don't want to speak about something and directing the conversation elsewhere doesn't work (though I tend to be good at it), I will say so, too. There are many things I will not discuss with most people.

[MENTION=9811]Coriolis[/MENTION], if you like the behavior would you initiate it or wait for the other person to do it?
How would I initiate behavior for others -- ask them to do something? Most behaviors I consider positive are just things someone either is used to doing, or doesn't do. I tend not to comment on the positives unless it is something above and beyond.
 

Coriolis

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Can they not be two sources of information?
You might consider them that, but the second is just as likely to be random and unrelated to the matter at hand, while the first is the output of deliberate consideration of relevant information. You might as well plan out your next year's garden by looking at the color of the neighbor's house.
 

Sizzling Berry

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So basically, I would have to have a strong proof that the second is correlated with the matter at stake. And if I'm wrong i would need to be willing to take the consequences.
 

highlander

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The insult is not in considering us liars, but rather on devaluing our intentional responses vs. something likely unconscious and involuntary. If I truly don't know my heart and mind (yet), it is not for you to probe around and draw your own conclusions. People who try to assess my emotional state are usually wrong. If I am undecided, I will say so. If I don't want to speak about something and directing the conversation elsewhere doesn't work (though I tend to be good at it), I will say so, too. There are many things I will not discuss with most people.

So are you suggesting that INTJs don't communicate unconsciously through body language? I don't believe it. Why should they be any different or special than anyone else in that regard. Are they hard to read and easy to misinterpret? Sure. If a person is good at reading body language and knows you, then I see no reason why they shouldn't use that as a means of understanding how you feel about something in the absence of a response. I agree with your point about devaluing intentional responses though - most irritating.

[MENTION=9811]Coriolis[/MENTION] and [MENTION=8936]highlander[/MENTION] thanks so much. And no insult was intended in point 2. I was not thinking that INTJs would willingly lie, but rather not know their heart or mind or not want to speak about something. Does it ever happen?

[MENTION=8936]highlander[/MENTION]: you are right with point 3 - better understanding is my goal in this :). Sometimes I asked 5 times (is it ok with you? do you like it?). What you had in mind when you mentioned leading questions? Could you give me an example.

I believe Coriolis was't insulted at all by what you said. She's referring to times when he was interacting with someone else who did that and it felt annoying or insulting to her.

With regards to your question, here is an example.
Other person - "I was thinking it would be good to see XYZ movie"
INTJ - Doesn't respond. Absorbed in thoughts and didn't hear what you said
Other person - "INTJ - did you hear anything I just said?"
INTJ - "What? What did you say?"
Other person - "I want to see XYZ movie tonight. Would you like to go to that?"
INTJ - "I dunno." Stops talking. Becomes absorbed in thoughts again.
Other person - "So do you want to go to a movie or not?"
INTJ - "I don 't know. Maybe." Slightly annoyed that thoughts were interrupted
Other person - "I would like to go to a movie tonight. Would you mind looking at a few of these movie ratings and trailers with me and then we can decide what we might want to go to?"
INTJ - "Sure, I guess so"
Both look at a few options together
Other person - "So, we could go to that one you liked or the one I want to see. If you go to XYZ movie then I promise we can go to that movie you want to see next weekend. Would that be ok with you. "
INTJ - "OK" Looks forward to going - if not tonight, to next week. Maybe enjoys himself at the movie tonight though he would have rather seen something else.
 
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