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  1. #21
    Analytical Dreamer Coriolis's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by highlander View Post
    So are you suggesting that INTJs don't communicate unconsciously through body language? I don't believe it. Why should they be any different or special than anyone else in that regard. Are they hard to read and easy to misinterpret? Sure. If a person is good at reading body language and knows you, then I see no reason why they shouldn't use that as a means of understanding how you feel about something in the absence of a response. I agree with your point about devaluing intentional responses though - most irritating.
    I do agree that everyone communicates unconsciously to some degree through body language. I would suspect INTJs are different, however, in doing this far less than most. I have been told a number of times that I give off far fewer nonverbal cues than do most people -- and by ENFPs and others who are very good at reading such cues. I have over the years made a conscious effort in this regard, so perhaps I do it even less than the average INTJ.

    You would, indeed, have to know me very well, or see me in a seriously extenuating circumstance, to derive any accurate information from my nonverbal cues. My mother and my SO have been the only ones to do so with any degree of success, and even they sometimes misread. This information should only be used in the absence of deliberate verbal communication, and should never outweigh it. Others are free to try to read my nonverbal "signals", but there is a 95% chance they will be wrong, and when I realize what they are doing, I will trust and respect them less.


    Quote Originally Posted by highlander View Post
    I believe Coriolis was't insulted at all by what you said. He's referring to times when he was interacting with someone else who did that and it felt annoying or insulting to him.

    With regards to your question, here is an example.
    You are correct; I wasn't insulted by anything SB wrote. I'm not really even insulted when people do this -- it is more an annoyance. Your example is perfect. This situation happens often between me and my SO. The example I sometimes offer is of when I told the people at work I was moving. Our secretary started carrying on about how I "must be excited to be moving into a new house". Why must I be excited? Because she would be? Allow me to have my own emotions regarding my recent move, and to keep them to myself.
    I've been called a criminal, a terrorist, and a threat to the known universe. But everything you were told is a lie. The truth is, they've taken our freedom, our home, and our future. The time has come for all humanity to take a stand...

  2. #22
    Analytical Dreamer Coriolis's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sizzling Berry View Post
    So basically, I would have to have a strong proof that the second is correlated with the matter at stake.
    Yes, and you can get that only from me.

    Quote Originally Posted by Sizzling Berry View Post
    And if I'm wrong i would need to be willing to take the consequences.
    That is always the case.
    I've been called a criminal, a terrorist, and a threat to the known universe. But everything you were told is a lie. The truth is, they've taken our freedom, our home, and our future. The time has come for all humanity to take a stand...

  3. #23
    Senior Member ceecee's Avatar
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    1) How do you express your likes and dislikes connected with people and how they behave? Oh. I tell them. In private of course but I do tell them.

    2) Should I believe you when you say something is neutral to you? Especially if your behavior says otherwise? Absolutely. There are things I completely do not care about one way or another, regardless of what the rest of the world thinks.

    3) I noticed that in any relationship like friendship for example you need to feel welcomed (that your presence and advice are appreciated and wanted). When you use the phrase "I don't mind" is it closer to "I don't care" or to "I like it". I think it would be closer to I like it because if I didn't care I would say I don't care.
    I like to rock n' roll all night and *part* of every day. I usually have errands... I can only rock from like 1-3.

  4. #24
    Cheeseburgers freeeekyyy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sizzling Berry View Post
    INTJs, I have a few questions:

    1) How do you express your likes and dislikes connected with people and how they behave?
    I'm generally pretty upfront in this way.

    2) Should I believe you when you say something is neutral to you? Especially if your behavior says otherwise?
    Yes and no. It's probably true, but that doesn't mean there isn't something else going on in a particular instance that might bother your INTJ.

    3) I noticed that in any relationship like friendship for example you need to feel welcomed (that your presence and advice are appreciated and wanted). When you use the phrase "I don't mind" is it closer to "I don't care" or to "I like it".
    Depends on the circumstances and context. It could be either one, or a true neutral. Basically, how I feel is irrelevant and I want you to do what you want to do. That's how I interpret it/would use it, anyways.

    Thanks in advance!!!
    Yup.
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  5. #25
    Magical Firelie's Avatar
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    1. It depends on how familiar I am with them. Person I know fairly well: I'll just tell them. Acquaintance: If it's a like, I'll smile (I smile a lot) Maybe a frown or a raised eyebrow or just a blank stare if it's a dislike. Person I don't know: Smile if I like, ignore if I dislike.

    2. I almost never say something is neutral to me unless I really, truly, definitely don't care either way. Most of the time, I either have an opinion, or don't have enough information to make a choice.

    3. I don't understand what the first part of that question means. Doesn't everyone want to feel like their presence is welcome in a friendship? I don't give advice unless it's really needed. I prefer to have people to figure out their own solutions to problems.

    When I say "I don't mind" it's closer to "I don't care." If I like something, I'll tell the person I like it.

  6. #26
    Senior Member Sizzling Berry's Avatar
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    Thanks guys - it's very helpful .

    Quote Originally Posted by Firelie View Post
    Doesn't everyone want to feel like their presence is welcome in a friendship?
    No, there are hundreds of people who give their advice whether the other person asks for it or not. The wishes of the one who receives the advice are not even an issue for them.

    It was said to put that question into a context - from my limited observations, INTJs seem to be particularly sensitive when it comes to the wishes of others in that aspect. Do they expect the same sensitivity? What if what they say is ambiguous to the other party?
    Hot-hearted head

  7. #27
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sizzling Berry View Post
    INTJs, I have a few questions:

    1) How do you express your likes and dislikes connected with people and how they behave?

    2) Should I believe you when you say something is neutral to you? Especially if your behavior says otherwise?

    3) I noticed that in any relationship like friendship for example you need to feel welcomed (that your presence and advice are appreciated and wanted). When you use the phrase "I don't mind" is it closer to "I don't care" or to "I like it".

    Thanks in advance!!!
    1. Likes: I might fold my arms and do a little breathe-in-through-my-nose laugh and perhaps give a little smirk.
    Dislikes: Act like the person is the biggest retard alive for doing whatever it is I dislike.

    2. Something is neutral to me as long as it doesn't affect me, whether I personally approve of it or not. So believe that it doesn't bother us, just not that we have no opinion on it.

    3. It really could be either. In fact (I can't speak for all INTJs), it sometimes is close to "it's bothering me" as well, since I've learned to become more tolerant of people. Really just go by our behavior.

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