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  1. #1
    Senior Member Cypocalypse's Avatar
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    Default Is being INTP a choice or is it inherent?

    This is something that came to my mind. Since the world is pretty much external and an individual's merits are often quantified my observable parameters (good academic grades, well-defined work metrics in a professional career, etc.), I'm thinking that these elements have a strong TJ inclination.

    Uhmmm....study hard (Si - pretty much memory centric), make an output by doing computation or implement something (Te), envision an eventuality of things (Ne), making a decision out of this (J).

    I'm envisioning an INTP life. We assess relationships of concepts (Ni), bind it with our Ti (logic) while using perception as P the catalyst of this process.

    And when we realize things, INTPs thrive in the intangible things. In a world with obvious inclination to external merits of an individual, is being INTP an inherent thing or did it just become a gradual choice of evolution for some people who despised the TJ world or something.

    Were there early cues in your life that may have showed an INTP trait?

  2. #2
    Member suzyk's Avatar
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    Everyday. More specifically, in elementary school. I was more interested in abstract concepts rather than ones justified by logic. It got me into a lot of trouble because I'd never study, I would ask questions about the world a lot. No one understood it. I never understood fractions either (lol), basically I wasn't good at anything that was totally logical with no possibilities of something new. I don't think you're born as any of the MBTI types, but the environment you grow up in may make you into one of them.

    We assess relationships of concepts (Ni), bind it with our Ti (logic) while using perception as P the catalyst of this process.

    True, very true. Perception is an important thing in this world.
    "I can write better than anybody who can write faster, and I can write faster than anybody who can write better."
    - A. J. Liebling

  3. #3
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    I think the standards that typically define merit in society were invented by TJs because they were the ones that wanted control over them most (Te).

    Anyway, to your main question, I think it's part genetics, part environment. It's hard to evaluate exactly what goes where, because the environment part of personality is pretty much set in stone by the time the focus of your life shifts away from your parents. The few reports of identical twins separated at birth (and then reunited) seem to mostly indicate a genetic role. I think how N-S and T-F are used is mostly genetic, the I-E and the J-P less so because they are more easily influenced by the environment.

    I showed early signs of being an INTP. I could read at age 2 and I spent the bulk of my time discovering things about the world (through reading and asking questions) for several years after, probably until about puberty.

  4. #4
    Senior Member Veneti's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by suzyk View Post
    I never understood fractions either (lol)
    Thats one thing I'll never get, is that women are so bad at maths (As an average). I've met really smart women who just can do numbers.

    Then again there's really smart guys who have no F empathy... Hmmm

    I think still think what I've still said in the last 2 sentences is why MBTI used them as a differentiator between Men and Women for job (Err I mean trait) profiling.

  5. #5
    Senior Member Veneti's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cypocalypse View Post
    This is something that came to my mind. Since the world is pretty much external and an individual's merits are often quantified my observable parameters (good academic grades, well-defined work metrics in a professional career, etc.), I'm thinking that these elements have a strong TJ inclination.
    You can blame the division of labour and the industrial revolution for your woes. Systems = productivity.

    The biggest hurdle the P has to face is to conform until they can get to use their P more. (P is great at the high levels... but at the coal face its all about J).

    Worse still, your divergent ideas will simply be stolen by your J seniors. (although someone high up can give you top cover and pull you through).

    One thing though, is that P's are really bad on the contingency mode thinking, they have some huge blind spots... its like they are blinkered down a narrow tunnel and hope like hell that something doesn't get them from left field before they touch down.

    Hmm... just maybe I was a P child (I was definitely an E early on)... and beat myself into the J.

  6. #6
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    I don't think the Industrial Revolution was responsible for the TJ dominance; TJs still dominated making the standards for society's merits well before the Industrial Revolution but in a different way. I will reiterate my point about TJs wanting to make the standards the most through the high amounts of Te in their personalities.

  7. #7
    Senior Member 6sticks's Avatar
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    I've felt the pull... sometimes I have looked upon graphs with a hidden lust... often I would find myself trying on a labcoat late at night or fondling a test tube while thinking of Descartes. It got worse later on, as I began to experiment with substances like dihydrogen monoxide.

    Fortunately I managed to break the cycle, thanks to a harsh regimen of athletic activity. Don't let this happen to you. INTPness is a choice and it can be cured... don't stay in the closet. Step outside, and let the sunlight embrace your frail, translucent bodies.
    No offense.

  8. #8
    not to be trusted miss fortune's Avatar
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    isn't it Ne that's the INTPs secondary function instead of Ni? Just dropping in to ask
    “Oh, we're always alright. You remember that. We happen to other people.” -Terry Pratchett

  9. #9
    Senior Member Veneti's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Badlands View Post
    I don't think the Industrial Revolution was responsible for the TJ dominance; TJs still dominated making the standards for society's merits well before the Industrial Revolution but in a different way. I will reiterate my point about TJs wanting to make the standards the most through the high amounts of Te in their personalities.
    How could you be late if there were no clocks.

    People before the industrial revolution (out in the country) often only worked 3-4 hours a day (from one thing I read ages ago). So everything was more relative. A P had room.

    Now, the world is far more systematic.

    I think P is heading towards a preference, but its a call like any other to say its genetic based. (I do believe genetics does play a part).

    Its presumptive to assume that TJs prior to the industrial revolution were the dominants (In fact they are a smaller subset of the total population) I think in small local clans it wouldn't be led by a TJ necessarily as systems were not that important to the degree they are now. The TJs might have been dominant in their little spher,e but their sphere wasn't what drove society.

    Look at the Church with its power... probably lots of F's. That was pre Industrial revolution. I'd say there was no need for any different assessment between P and J back in time.

  10. #10
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    The world is far more systematic, yes, but the only "directive" Feeling types (who are inclined to give orders) are NFJs, and even they don't usually direct for their own advantage (the real or imagined advantage of others; that's why they call ENFJ and INFJ Teacher and Counselor). It seems pretty clear to me that people in the Church that wanted to regulate things were usually Thinkers; before the Industrial Revolution, many people didn't "believe" in God because that's what they seriously believe; they did it because the Church would have them by the head or worse if they didn't. I'm sure many Thinkers got into power with the church for their own advantage and desire for control. And even if there wasn't as noticable a difference between J and P, that doesn't mean the distinction didn't exist. TJs already had control before the Industrial Revolution because many of them were willing to sacrifice moral principles to obtain it, and the Industrial Revolution simply gave them an additional advantage over future societal control.

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