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  1. #31
    Don't Judge Me! Haphazard's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ThatsWhatHeSaid View Post
    Explain free will.

    I haven't fully worked out my proof yet, but the gist is, free will depends on there being something to "rise above" and outside of the causal chains that make up reality. Since there is no self, there is nothing to "rise up."
    Once I have a valid defintion of free will, I'll get back to you.

    Then again, I've heard that decisions in your brain are already recognizable on scans up to seven minutes before you make them...

    I didn't say it was ALL bullshit, I said there's a misunderstanding about its interpretation. Also, this site has sucked me in with other topics and friendships.
    An I see... Yes, I'd have to agree with you on that. I only recently got sucked into MBTI internet culture so I'm still trying to figure things out for myself. It's a fun quest, I'll tell you that.

    If you thought it was all bullshit and you made a point of saying it in every thread you saw, well, that'd make you a troll. Lol.

  2. #32
    Senior Member sriv's Avatar
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    You cannot burn a guy for speaking his mind. Oh wait, they can.

  3. #33
    Junior Member Hotdoh's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Badlands View Post
    Anyway, to your main question, I think it's part genetics, part environment.
    I remember, when I was young (between about five and seven years of age), that I wanted to be near people all of the time. I loved everything about them. Then something changed, I realized that people began to develop a sort of a "social game" that I didn't understand. They began to lie to each other, talk nicely to one person and badly to another for shallow and superficial reasons. They did this always to raise others' opinions of themselves; I couldn't deal with it. I tried "playing the game," but I simply couldn't understand it, and I didn't much care for it on an ethical level either (I still don't, by the way). I believe that this may have turned me a bit more introvert than I may have been if people weren't of this nature.

    This seems to imply a case for nurture, but, at least from my point of view, only on the surface. Perhaps an introvert is one who can't (or won't) "play the game"* when it is presented to them, and extroverts are those who will realize the game's flaws but believe that more is to be gained than lost from joining in.

    Am I an extrovert turned inside due to my inability to handle human nature, or have I always been an introvert who had only discovered what a drain people are once my peers were old enough to participate in societal normalities on a more realistic level?

    *The manner in which I use this is not to imply only shallow behavior (I believe that that is simply a part of human nature), but that "the game" is all of societal interaction as is expected of "normal" and "healthy" individuals.
    Coffee isn't my cup of tea.
    Samuel Goldwyn
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  4. #34
    Furry Critter with Claws Kiddo's Avatar
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    As a member of NARTI (National Association of Research and Therapy of INTPness) it is my sad duty to inform you that being an INTP is a mental disorder. NARTI has many studies to prove this claim based on our observance of how INTPs are prone to not be openly talkative, tend to lack immediate attachment to their senses, may at times not demonstrate adequate empathy, and show a habit of putting off crucial decisions until the last minute. These maladaptive behaviors are not your fault however! They are the result of not living in nuclear families and subsequent environmental factors which come to influence your long term behavior. But there is hope! Using Reparation Therapy, we can harness the power of prayer to convert you to productive ESFJs. The cure rate is not 100%, but we can teach you ways to abstain from INTPness so you can live an almost normal life.
    Quote Originally Posted by Silently Honest View Post
    OMNi: Wisdom at the cost of Sanity.

  5. #35
    Junior Member Hotdoh's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kiddo View Post
    As a member of NARTI (National Association of Research and Therapy of INTPness) it is my sad duty to inform you that being an INTP is a mental disorder. NARTI has many studies to prove this claim based on our observance of how INTPs are prone to not be openly talkative, tend to lack immediate attachment to their senses, may at times not demonstrate adequate empathy, and show a habit of putting off crucial decisions until the last minute. These maladaptive behaviors are not your fault however! They are the result of not living in nuclear families and subsequent environmental factors which come to influence your long term behavior. But there is hope! Using Reparation Therapy, we can harness the power of prayer to convert you to productive ESFJs. The cure rate is not 100%, but we can teach you ways to abstain from INTPness so you can live an almost normal life.
    Ha, I hope this is a joke; I quite enjoy being the way I am, though it does seem to be more of a disorder when stated this way as opposed to viewing this personality in reality.

    I have noticed, however, that INTPs have many of the same qualities as a schizoid.

    [From dictionary.com] Schizoid: of or pertaining to a personality disorder marked by dissociation, passivity, withdrawal, inability to form warm social relationships, and indifference to praise or criticism.

    Not that this is conclusive or extensive, but I have noticed other differences; I simply don't have much time right now.
    Coffee isn't my cup of tea.
    Samuel Goldwyn
    |R|CueI INTP

  6. #36
    Gotta catch you all! Blackmail!'s Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hotdoh View Post
    Ha, I hope this is a joke
    How can you be so sure?
    "A man who only drinks water has a secret to hide from his fellow-men" -Baudelaire

    7w8 SCUxI

  7. #37
    RETIRED CzeCze's Avatar
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    When I read the question, I thought the OP would be talking about INTPness in terms of being on that logic mobius loop which causes you to get 'stuck'. And if being 'stuck' is a choice and determines your INTPness, well then, that's just another circle of hell and I feel you for you buddy!

    On a more serious note, I think upbringing really messes with your levels of E/I more -- much more -- than anything else. Next would be how your F/T developed and are expressed. Because an abusive environment or an especially open and loving environment will make a huge impact on how comfortable and how readily you express (or suppress) anger, disapproval, affection, etc.

    S/N I think is less affected by environment and same with P/J -- though a strict program could make a P 'naturally' express as a J in terms of cleanliness, punctuality, demanding closure, etc. And there's anecdotal evidence that people seek to be the opposite of their upbringing in terms of how you keep house. RE: especially chaotic environments are so stressful to J's they compensate when they get older and cling more tightly to order and control. And especially strict upbringings quelch Ps to the point they bust out like Catholic schoool girls in a Girls Gone Wild video first chance they get out from under the thumb of 'the man'.

    S/N I'd imagine is almost impossible to hammer in or out of someone because it's so intrinsic to how someone intimately experiences the world that it's simply too jarring in an opposite environment to try to mimic and pass. And it's really hard to access that part of someone so close to how they view the world at their core or even know what switches to flip to "change" that function.
    “If you want to tell people the truth, make them laugh, otherwise they'll kill you.” ― Oscar Wilde

    "I'm outtie 5000" ― Romulux

    Johari/Nohari

  8. #38
    Lallygag Moderator Geoff's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hotdoh View Post
    [From dictionary.com] Schizoid: of or pertaining to a personality disorder marked by dissociation, passivity, withdrawal, inability to form warm social relationships, and indifference to praise or criticism.
    Gives me a warm glow, my INTP friends all listed together. Soon as you replace the first few words for INTP, it makes sense

  9. #39
    Furry Critter with Claws Kiddo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hotdoh View Post
    Ha, I hope this is a joke; I quite enjoy being the way I am, though it does seem to be more of a disorder when stated this way as opposed to viewing this personality in reality.
    Absolutely not! It is immoral to live with a mental disorder, and thus it is immoral to be an INTP. You need treatment! INTPs, who make up around 5% of the population, are practicing a lifestyle that is not only harmful to them as individuals, but to families and possibly even the nation's infrastructure! I'm calling for a ban on INTP marriage because when two INTPs get together, it perpetrates and normalizes the disorder. As a person of values, I cannot allow people to continue to suffer from this ailment. I think with therapy and prayer, you will come to realize the true nature that God intended for you.

    I was reminded just recently, and even though NARTI does not support the idea that people are born as INTPs, there are groups working toward a vaccination, chemical treatments, and even genetic modification procedures that could reduce the possibility of people who are born in the future from developing harmful predispositions toward becoming an INTP. So you see, there is hope even if we can't cure you, that future children will not have to suffer from this disorder.

    I also remind you that although being an INTP is not a choice, it is your choice on whether or not you seek treatment.
    Quote Originally Posted by Silently Honest View Post
    OMNi: Wisdom at the cost of Sanity.

  10. #40
    Junior Member Hotdoh's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kiddo View Post
    Absolutely not! It is immoral to live with a mental disorder, and thus it is immoral to be an INTP.
    So the mentally retarded are immoral based upon genetic circumstances beyond their control?

    A chemical imbalance in the brain, which may be a leading cause for depression, renders he who posses this imbalance to be, by no fault of their own, immoral?

    Quote Originally Posted by Kiddo View Post
    I'm calling for a ban on INTP marriage because when two INTPs get together, it perpetrates and normalizes the disorder. As a person of values, I cannot allow people to continue to suffer from this ailment. I think with therapy and prayer, you will come to realize the true nature that God intended for you.
    A ban on marriage between two loving people?

    Please, somebody, anyone, tell me (s)he's not serious. I don't have time for this right now; I wish I did.
    Coffee isn't my cup of tea.
    Samuel Goldwyn
    |R|CueI INTP

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