• You are currently viewing our forum as a guest, which gives you limited access to view most discussions and access our other features. By joining our free community, you will have access to additional post topics, communicate privately with other members (PM), view blogs, respond to polls, upload content, and access many other special features. Registration is fast, simple and absolutely free, so please join our community today! Just click here to register. You should turn your Ad Blocker off for this site or certain features may not work properly. If you have any problems with the registration process or your account login, please contact us by clicking here.

[ENTP] Non-machiavelian ENTP?

Gabe

New member
Joined
Nov 17, 2007
Messages
590
MBTI Type
ENTP
Non-Machevelian ENTPs:

Al Gore
Thomas Edison

as it turns out, those are the only people that I can confidently type as ENTPs right now.
 

Baltar

New member
Joined
Apr 15, 2008
Messages
47
MBTI Type
INTP
I had an ENTP buddy who was quite machiavellian-it often backfired, though. He was one of those people who was very, very intelligent, but very much lacked "common sense". He did not think through his grand schemes. A lot of people liked him just for the entertainment value of hearing him talk.
 

Baltar

New member
Joined
Apr 15, 2008
Messages
47
MBTI Type
INTP
I had an ENTP buddy who was quite machiavellian-it often backfired, though. He was one of those people who was very, very intelligent, but very much lacked "common sense". He did not think through his grand schemes. A lot of people liked him just for the entertainment value of hearing him talk.

I think some other good examples of fictional ENTPs are the main character on CBS' "Shark", The professor/ringleader played by Kevin Spacey in 21, maybe Alex P. Keaton from "Family Ties"-which I find funny since someone mentioned Doc Brown.

Edelweiss, Whatever, what are you two like? or any other ENTP females that haven't chimed in. I don't know if I know any in real life. ANyone think of any fictional ENTP females?
 

nozflubber

DoubleplusUngoodNonperson
Joined
Mar 30, 2008
Messages
2,078
MBTI Type
Hype
Non-Machevelian ENTPs:

Thomas Edison

Wrong!

TESLA! This is an ideal historical comparison for our entp analysis here! both Entps and both at opposite ends in a technology war. Check it:

Edison was very machevelian. When it become apparent that his beloved dirrect current was inferior to alternating current for delivering electricity over long distances, he said NO problem! we will just build direct current stations on every city block, and the Edison company will make even more profit by delivering electricity to people.

Tesla wanted to give unlimited electricity to the world, free of charge. Edison wanted to EVENTUALLY make electricity so cheap, only the rich would burn candles. Tesla died penniless and sad because he gave every last one of his gifts to be the "man-God who lit the world". Edison was an unltra-intelligent inventor who was keen on business matters, leaving a legacy of energy corporations. Who's more machievellian? There's no need to even reflect on it, because Tesla was a very selfless, genious ENTP.

Don't buy into the hubbub!
 

Haphazard

Don't Judge Me!
Joined
Apr 14, 2008
Messages
6,704
MBTI Type
ENFJ
Nozzy, I've seen both Tesla and Edison typed in certain places as INTJ.

It seems to me that the way ENTPs work is not that they're necessarily naturaly 'machiavellian' but the way they perceive the public can be seen as machiavellian. The idea is that the 'public' is put in a different box than 'acquaintances'. The 'public' can be controlled and amused and easily manipulated by the ENTP but that's not really the ENTP's focus at all.

So, they can be machiavellian, but it's not really what they want to be.
 

mippus

you are right
Joined
Jan 15, 2008
Messages
906
MBTI Type
Intp
Enneagram
5w6
Speaking of Machialvellian, who has read "Il Principe"?
What did you learn from it?
Is it readable?
 

Gabe

New member
Joined
Nov 17, 2007
Messages
590
MBTI Type
ENTP
The interaction between tesla and edison was a unique one characterized by mutual opposing personalities. Remember that Tesla (INTJ!) worked for Edison (ENTP) for a while, but quit and had a lot of nasty things to say about Edison. Edison's behavior was completely characteristic of opposing personality Ni, and demonic Se ( Denying/ignoring that he was on the wrong side of history and delaying the inevitable (opposing Ni), and hypocritically arranging for the electric chair to be run on AC even though he opposed the death penalty, to 'demonstrate' the 'danger' of AC (demonic Se)). Sure, Tesla was definately the better man in the long run, and Edison ended up being very Machavelian, but I don't think ENTPs are inherintly Machavelian.

Which leads me to Al Gore. What do you have to say about him?
 

entropie

Permabanned
Joined
Apr 24, 2008
Messages
16,767
MBTI Type
entp
Enneagram
783
demonic Se , All Gore , omg, I guess I have to bruise up on my english xD
 

Ander

New member
Joined
Jul 16, 2008
Messages
4
MBTI Type
ENTP
I always thought Gore was an INTP. His Si function demonstrates a capacity to deal well with details and examples. What he sucks at is Fe - shared demonstrations of emotion. I once saw him give the speech dedicating the holocaust museum and it was painful to watch - but good guy, clearly strategic intellect - I'd go with INTP.

That said, I am an ENTP with F tendencies. In the end, I want to learn about the world and organize that learning into perhaps bizarre theories and patterns. Over time, I have learned to delve deeply into things and have found many previous conceptions to not bear the test of experience and the data. I have a nimble mind and am always game-planning possibilities.

However, I have found that, whenever things have gone successfully for me, there are a group of people who think that I have found success because I've been doing things for the right reasons and people who insist that I am a self-interested egomaniac who uses deception, subterfuge, and scheming for my own unholy ends.

I tend to find that any success I have is due more to a genuine desire to innovate things to be better than they are and the strategic vision to see them through. Often, I have to go out on an unpopular limb to support or carry out a course of action against great criticism, only to be ultimately redeemed when things work out.

Do I have the ability to think coldly strategically, you bet. Can I outsmart situations and people, yeah. But I tend to use those in service of others - and dislike manipulating people. I rather try to use logic - something which I used to do with less attention to people's emotions but I have learned that its better to pay attention to those.

I feel like people knock ENTPs because they have amazing abilities - they also have great flaws - absent mindedness and an ability to take care of themselves being up there. That said, I completely believe an ENTP has the ability to act nobly, largely because they can see a vision larger than themselves. The trick is learning to commit to that vision.
 

Nocapszy

no clinkz 'til brooklyn
Joined
Jun 29, 2007
Messages
4,517
MBTI Type
ENTP
Non-Machevelian ENTPs:

Al Gore
Thomas Edison

Gore is ENTJ. And he is machiavellian. This whole global warming thing....

It's gotten a bit out of hand -- what more could an ENTJ wish for?



What about Richard Feynman? If no one's mentioned him, I wanna.
 

maxk299

New member
Joined
Jul 20, 2008
Messages
6
MBTI Type
ENFP
My mom is an ENTP and she worked on civil rights law and creating more fair housing regulation.
Richard Feynman was a groundbreaking physicist and an ENTP.
The teacher who changed my life was an ENTP.
I've know many ENTPs and Machiavellian isn't a word I would use to describe them. Maybe brilliant, creative, explorers who stop the world from becoming stale by finding new ways of looking at it. :) Hope that helps.
 

Terian

New member
Joined
Jul 20, 2008
Messages
197
MBTI Type
NeTi
As an ENTP I can definitely say that I am not Machiavellian. Sure, I am cunning, and constantly "scheming", but I am not unscrupulous. If I do well in life, it is because I deserved getting to that point. I think that in general, ENTPs are too people friendly to be Machiavellian.
Obviously there will be exceptions to the rule, but all in all, I think that a misanthropic ENTP will act more like Gregory House than anything(one) else.
 

Shadowrose

New member
Joined
Jul 22, 2008
Messages
81
MBTI Type
ENTP
I hate to kick a dead stump, but I suspect ENTPs can frequently be misobserved as being very Machiavellian. The problem seems that we can clump people into groups like "Us" and "Them", and we view "Them" as little more than chewtoys and tools for our grand schemes. At least, that's how it seems to me. I can be very manipulative and sneaky and machiavellian, but it's generally due to some greater motivation or cause that most people are completely blind to. Oh, and you can ask my friends, I frequently complain about how much I hate people. I've even explained to friends that they're not people, explicitly because people are idiots. So, yeah.
 

Perseus

New member
Joined
Aug 13, 2008
Messages
79
MBTI Type
INTP
Non-machiavelian ENTP?

As INTP I can do spells of ENTP without The Prince. It has proved to be a disaster before I understood about the Guards.
 

norepinephrine

New member
Joined
Jun 10, 2008
Messages
402
MBTI Type
INTP
Being Machiavellian is WAAAY too much work. :D

I think that's it exactly. I have friends who have admitted they suspect I spend my alone time in an underground lair laughing maniacally and plotting world domination. I've explained that I can scheme, and I can plot but being totally ruthless takes too much energy.

And what would I do with the world once I got it? After a week I'd get bored, stop taking it for walks, and forget to feed it.

Oh, and you can ask my friends, I frequently complain about how much I hate people. I've even explained to friends that they're not people, explicitly because people are idiots. So, yeah.

That sounds exactly like my son's attitude. And yes, he's ENTP.
 

paintmuffin

New member
Joined
May 14, 2009
Messages
159
MBTI Type
eNTP
I find this thread hilarious - I've known I was XNTP for a while, but everyone has always seen me as sweet, charming, lovable, funny, etc. What I've always known they don't realize is that it's all part of my hugely devious plans of making good impressions, forging useful contacts, and getting guys. The sad part is that it's completely conscious on my part. Lately I've been more extroverted, and my favorite pastime is discussing my latest schemes for winning over this guy, and plotting against my enemies, et cetera. My closest friends say I'm the most devious person they know. And it's true. I really do think it's an ENTp thing. I agree with Nocap: We're all the brains, without the conscience.
 
Top